PIR - Am I allowed to do it???

[chrisgc]

Hi all,

I am just at the stage of listing my things I can do and cant do etc.

I have my 17th Edition and EAL Level 2 Certificate Domestic Electrical Installers and was wondering if I am allowed to do periodic inspections??

This would only be for land lords and obviously your normal privately owned house owners as I dont undertake any commercial.

I would really appreciate a definitive answer from someone (and if your local will buy you a pint lol).

Chris

 

[DurhamSparky]

YES YOU CAN!!!

BUT

if your competence ever got called in to question what technical qualification have you got to back your self up in court!

2391 is the bad boy you need!!

oh yeah and Professional Indemnity Insurance is also recomended!!

 

[chrisgc]

YES YOU CAN!!!

BUT

if your competence ever got called in to question what technical qualification have you got to back your self up in court!

2391 is the bad boy you need!!

oh yeah and Professional Indemnity Insurance is also recomended!!

I totally agree with what you say DurhamSparky and am definately looking into do the 2391 in a couple of years time.

BUT I was also just going to add onto my thread that I have yet to decide what competent person scheme to join.

I want to go with NICEIC (mainly because the ill informed public seem to believe you HAVE to be with them - which in my view needs changing).

ALSO I am under the impressions that with the others ie. Elecsa, Napit etc they would NOT accept me with the quals I have - is this right?

And if so I am under the impression that NICEIC dont allow PIR's - is that right too??

Your reply would be gratefully appreciated again,

Thanks
Chris

 

[DurhamSparky]

NIC is one of the Biggest Consumer Scams out there!!

with your quals you have the BARE MIN to register on any scheme!!

Honestly Speaking i would recommend ELECSA as its not over powering like the NIC and its aimed at the contractor not Joe Public..

NIC yes is more well known but in domestic market people aint got a bloody clue!!! why you think cowboys thrive!

Elecsa are second biggest and Owned by the ECA!

unfortunately the NIC or Elecsa wont allow you to do PIR certs with there LOGO on with out shelling out Mega Bucks for a site assessment on top of your other assessment to join! (another scam) PIR are non notification so why pay them money for some thing you can do for free!!

only Napit includes this in there package! Im Elscsa and i do PIR!!!

 

[mnmwill]

Im Elscsa and i do PIR!!!

So do you just complete generic forms for your PIR's then?

 

[ezzzekiel]

its all a load of tosh !!!!!


not very helpfull try harder:
as said Napit allow pir to be carried out as part of their membership but you require additional pi insurance.

This is news to me, it only came to light recently and ive carried out many pir's.

im of same views, i already paid for memberships and insurances and calibrated eqquipment and vehicle costs etc etc etc so they can go jump if they think im shelling out any more.

Use whatever pir form you choose just dont add a scheme logo to it, i will issue the same and fight it in court if it ever came to it.

 

[DurhamSparky]

So do you just complete generic forms for your PIR's then?

i use software that prints out forms any way so i don't use the Scams sorry "Schemes" stuff!!!

mines all generic and maybe some times i cant be bothered to remove the elecsa logo

 

[chrisgc]

i use software that prints out forms any way so i don't use the Scams sorry "Schemes" stuff!!!

mines all generic and maybe some times i cant be bothered to remove the elecsa logo

DurhamSparky

Just a couple of questions:

1) With my quals am I able to join ELECSA?? As I was under the impression that I did not meet their criteria?

2) Also so can you confirm that I AM allowed to do PIR's? (As long as not indicating on my PIR inspections sheets etc that their is no endorsement from a competent person scheme)?

3) If I did decide to do PIR's would I need to take out an additional insurance on top of my normal Public Liability? If so what type of insurance?

Look forward to hearing from you.

Chris

 

[Spudnik]

..... Elecsa wont allow you to do PIR certs with there LOGO on....

Not strictly true, but officially correct.

 

[DurhamSparky]

hi mate,

check

http://www.elecsa.co.uk/downloads/GuidetoPartP_August2009.pdf

dont just go with what people tell you you can or cant do actually research the facts..!! you be surprised.

you need professional indemnity insurance on top of Public...!! about 500k

no need to tell people your PIR aint endorsed as it don't matter!!

 

[chrisgc]

hi mate,

check

http://www.elecsa.co.uk/downloads/GuidetoPartP_August2009.pdf

dont just go with what people tell you you can or cant do actually research the facts..!! you be surprised.

you need professional indemnity insurance on top of Public...!! about 500k

no need to tell people your PIR aint endorsed as it don't matter!!

Thanks for that Steve,

Does seem like NICEIC charge for every minute thing even probably admin changes.

Just a few last questions:

1) Do you know anyone who is with ELECSA who only has the EAL level 2 domestic installers and the 17th edition?

2) What was the ELECSA assessment like when you had it?

3) Is PIR work NOT notifiable then? Effectively you dont have to be on competent person scheme to do them?

Chris

 

[DurhamSparky]

1) Do you know anyone who is with ELECSA who only has the EAL level 2 domestic installers and the 17th edition?

Yes!!!!

2) What was the ELECSA assessment like when you had it?

Easy Peasy when i look back, before hand i was worrying and on the forums making sure i did all correct.. lol

3) Is PIR work NOT notifiable then? Effectively you dont have to be on competent person scheme to do them?

Correct.....! the schemes just want you to pay them £--- so they endorse your paperwork..

 

[chrisgc]

Blimey thats unreal that to do PIR you dont have to be on Competent Person Scheme.

Dont get me wrong in a way good you dont have to be as I really think just like they harmonised wire colours they should harmonise the entry qualification to be an electrician.

To many different things like types of qualifications to make all the legal side a bit confusing.

And I know a lot of electricians dont like the idea of the EAL Domestic Installers scheme but when your in your 30's most (not all) want to make a quick career change.

Oh how we would have took a different route if we was all 18 again!

The worst thing with the Domestic Installers scheme is that its a lot crammed in and definately lacks the practical side of things.

If anyone knows of an electrician who is looking for an electricians mate then let me know as I really want to get some hands on experience.

Anyway Steve thanks for the info about ELECSA and to be honest I am worried sick of getting a date through and worried about not passing as want it so bad.

Chris

 

[DurhamSparky]

any time bud,

p.s im not time served either but i did have my Navy background as an engineer to help me.

 

[chrisgc]

Steve,

Just a quick one.

It didnt state how many types of work ELECSA asess on.

NICEIC is TWO (one major and one minor) and has to be at DIFFERENT properties.

How many is ELECSA? And can it be on your own home or does it have to be a different location?

Chris

 

[DurhamSparky]

YOUR INITIAL ASSESSMENT HAS TO BE A MAJOR JOB

this can be a box change at your own home!! they like to see 2 but 1 will sufice if its your first one!

 

[Des 56]

Hi all,

I am just at the stage of listing my things I can do and cant do etc.

I have my 17th Edition and EAL Level 2 Certificate Domestic Electrical Installers and was wondering if I am allowed to do periodic inspections??

This would only be for land lords and obviously your normal privately owned house owners as I dont undertake any commercial.

I would really appreciate a definitive answer from someone (and if your local will buy you a pint lol).

Chris

Anybody can do pirs,but doing so competently, requires experience of installations and above average knowlege of those installations

Becoming a domestic installer with the extra low entry requirements may give an impression to that person that they are competent to inspect and test existing installations

They would not be able to do so competently until they had extensive experience of installations before hand
They could be done by the inexperienced,but the pir may become contensious in a court of law
If that were the case,and the person carrying out the work had to prove in the one and only place his qualification for doing the test and inspection was questioned,with the possibility of criminal offences being committed, if they couldn't persuade the court they were in fact competent they could be criminalised
The 2391 may help with this proof,along with experience
Tread wearily for a time

 

[martysparky]

1) Do you know anyone who is with ELECSA who only has the EAL level 2 domestic installers and the 17th edition?

Elecsa requirements
EAL and 2m pl insurance a copy of the memorandum of EAW1989, BS7671, OSG, and a MFT.
Once passed assessment you have one year to get 17th edition.

 

[Risteard]

Blimey thats unreal that to do PIR you dont have to be on Competent Person Scheme.

There is absolutely no work which requires one to be a member of a so-called "Competent Person Scheme".

 

[martysparky]

There is absolutely no work which requires one to be a member of a so-called "Competent Person Scheme".

could you elaborate on that one dude

 

[brucelee]

hi guys
so to register with elecsa would 17th and logic part p level a award satisfy requirments
I have also just taken 2391 and still waiting to see if i passed, i also have C&g2377 and building regs C&G2393
I to tried the apprentice route but was told i was to old i originally was a apprentice in 1986 but never completed my exams
and had to pay private for above I was told these satisfy requirments
also been looking into NVQ but have to be working in the industry

 

[Risteard]

could you elaborate on that one dude

Just as I said really. The only legal requirement is competence. Scheme membership is entirely optional and is in no way a legal requirement. This includes notifiable work in England and Wales. (The procedures for notification may be different but nonethless membership of a so-called "Competent Persons' Scheme" is optional.)

 

[martysparky]

Just as I said really. The only legal requirement is competence. Scheme membership is entirely optional and is in no way a legal requirement. This includes notifiable work in England and Wales. (The procedures for notification may be different but nonethless membership of a so-called "Competent Persons' Scheme" is optional.)

you mean to the LABC route I take it.

 

[Graeme Harrold]

Its a sad state of affairs with the whole 2330 thing. I too looked at doing this as I approached retirement time from the Army, but it was a closed shop for either those employed as an apprentice in the trade, or made it so bloody difficult to register it wasnt worth it. I too did the EAL DEI course and breezed through it thanks to my engineering background, aced 17th edition and only dropped a few marks on 2391 theory and got 100% on the practical.

Passed the ELECSA assessment with a slight oversight which was quickly rectified. Quite a bit of my work is inspection based given the number of rental properties round here. At the end of the day quals only go so far, got to get that knowledge to your finger tips to earn good money. I depend on word of mouth and doing a good job correctly and safely is critical to my on going sucess. I have no interest in doing commercial as I have plenty of domestic work available and thats where the 2330 time served will thrive.

Basically with that I would not recommend doing PIR's without the back up of at least holding C&G 2391 as this is a tough course and makes you look long and hard at inspection and testing. I also use PIRform for all of my paperwork.

 

[Pete@HGE]

Blimey thats unreal that to do PIR you dont have to be on Competent Person Scheme.

Chris

Had my assessment with ELECSA just today, my assessor stated that he himself is not a member of a Competent Person Scheme. Certainly very knowledgeable, probably very experienced (and certainly competent). If you work commercially or in industry you would probably not be part of a scheme but would surely be very capable.

An experienced spark could well carry out PIR's every day of the week and still not be a member of a scheme. Remember, your spending about £400 a year just for the benefit of informing a scheme of notifiable work carried out. If you do less than 2 domestic notifiables a year, you might as well pay the thieving LABC their ransom and still be quids in.

Pete