PIR Floodlight RCD requirements

[rodders01]

A friend has replaced PIR floodlight at home. The house is wired 16th edition so no RCD on the lighting circuit, which the outdoor light is connected to. Now current regs state,

"5.7.4 Fixed Equipment

Fixed equipment in the garden such as permanent lighting attached to buildings, should be securely erected with all cables buried or securely fixed to permanent structures clear of the ground. All insulated class II equipment is recommended where possible. Outdoor fixed equipment is not required to be protected by an RCD. A disconnection time of 0.4 seconds is required."

His earthing is PME, and the floodlight is out of reach without using a ladder, so I see no reason why an RCD is required. However the manufacturers instructions state the light must be connected to an RCD. It is IP44 rated, and I've seen loads of these in the past, and the instructions have never specified this. However manufacturer's instructions must be adhered to. Why would this manufacturer specify this when most others don't? Are they just being over cautious? I did suggest fitting a RCBO, but the circuit has smoke alarms. I have suggested he removes the light and replaces it with another manufacturer that doesn't specify the use of an RCD to be squeaky clean. After I will test ELI for him. He's not too happy about this. Am I correct in advising him to do this?

 

[Octopus]

a friend has replaced pir floodlight at home. The house is wired 16th edition so no rcd on the lighting circuit, which the outdoor light is connected to. Now current regs state,

"5.7.4 fixed equipment

fixed equipment in the garden such as permanent lighting attached to buildings, should be securely erected with all cables buried or securely fixed to permanent structures clear of the ground. All insulated class ii equipment is recommended where possible. outdoor fixed equipment is not required to be protected by an rcd. a disconnection time of 0.4 seconds is required."

his earthing is pme, and the floodlight is out of reach without using a ladder, so i see no reason why an rcd is required. However the manufacturers instructions state the light must be connected to an rcd. It is ip44 rated, and i've seen loads of these in the past, and the instructions have never specified this. However manufacturer's instructions must be adhered to. Why would this manufacturer specify this when most others don't? Are they just being over cautious? i did suggest fitting a rcbo, but the circuit has smoke alarms. I have suggested he removes the light and replaces it with another manufacturer that doesn't specify the use of an rcd to be squeaky clean. After i will test eli for him. He's not too happy about this. Am i correct in advising him to do this?

wtf???

 

[davesparks]

5.7.4 doesn't sound like a current regulation number?

 

[rodders01]

http://www.electriciansforums.co.uk...lations/15346-rcd-needed-outside-light-2.html

Post 18

As for smoke alarms

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Technical/Regulations/Fire/CutOut/PowerSupplies.htm

1.20 The smoke alarm circuit should preferably not be protected by any residual current device (rcd). However if electrical safety requires the use of a rcd, either:

a. the smoke alarm circuit should be protected by a single rcd which serves no other circuit; or

b. the rcd protection of a smoke alarm circuit should operate independently of any rcd protection for circuits supplying socket-outlets or portable equipment

 

[Marvo]

5.7.4 doesn't sound like a current regulation number?

The number refers to the outline of the regulations on the TLC website, not the 17th edition regs themselves.

 

[rodders01]

The number refers to the outline of the regulations on the TLC website, not the 17th edition regs themselves.

It's from BS 7671:2008 green book I believe.

 

[Octopus]

http://www.electriciansforums.co.uk...lations/15346-rcd-needed-outside-light-2.html

Post 18

As for smoke alarms

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Technical/Regulations/Fire/CutOut/PowerSupplies.htm

1.20 The smoke alarm circuit should preferably not be protected by any residual current device (rcd). However if electrical safety requires the use of a rcd, either:

a. the smoke alarm circuit should be protected by a single rcd which serves no other circuit; or

b. the rcd protection of a smoke alarm circuit should operate independently of any rcd protection for circuits supplying socket-outlets or portable equipment

I prefer BS 7671 as my source of guidance rather than a retailer!

 

[Marvo]

As a professional I'd certainly agree but I guess DIY'ers will often refer to free and less official resources such as retailers websites.

 

[rodders01]

I prefer BS 7671 as my source of guidance rather than a retailer!

Good point. I was referring to BS5839 fire detection. Seems silly to me, as a dedicated circuit tripping is more likely to go amiss than a lighting circuit tripping. Basically my point is changing the circuit to RCBO could open up another can of worms. So it would just be easier to change the light to one that doesn't specify an RCD in the manufacturers instructions, or am I missing something?

 

[HandySparks]

Sometimes you just have to go with your own judgement and ignore the manufacturer's instructions (the regs are self contradictory on this matter). I would normally not add RCD protection for outside lighting except perhaps if it was within easy reach and vulnerable to tampering.

 

[Richard Burns]

Wait until January to test it, when hopefully the 3rd amendment will only advise you to take account of the manufacturers instructions!:angel_smile:

 

[tazz]

The BS 7671 and the BS5839 work together without any problems.......your wiring should meet the requirements of 7671 and the 5839, part 6 Grade D in this case will also be covered, with the detectors ability to notify power loss, and being battery backup for minimum of 30 days