PIR in a pub

[coxyboy]

I recently carried out a PIR on a pub. It had 4no. Fuse boards one in the bar area just for lighting - this board had no rcd protection - is this needed for a pub? And there was a lot of circuits doubled up or even three lines in one mcb - should I recommend that I upgrade the fuse board so each circuit has its own mcb. I know this is good pratice to do this but what code would I give for doubled circuits c3 or c2?

fuse board two is in the cellar and does mainly sockets and heaters. It is a really old fuse board with the big brown mcb's. Again I take it that most if not all these circuits need rcd protection? C2? I've suggested that the fuse board is upgraded with rcbo's for each circuit to avoid unwanted tripping.

Fuseboard three and four were in the living area of the pub ie the flat and rented out rooms above. These were both split load boards and the right circuits were protected by the right rcd,s as required. I think thinking of doing two separate Certs one for the pub which would be unsatisfactory and one for the living area that would be satisfactory with only a few code 3's. Is this the best way to do it and I'm I allowed to do this...?

Would be interested to see other peoples views on commercial testing as I don't do these too often whereas I do upto four domestic tests on a daily basis. Any opinions , views or advice would be very helpful and I would be very greatful.


Many thanks
darren

 

[DurhamSparky]

comercial premises same as domestic in eyes of 7671!!!

if teh box is been overloaded i would say code 2 unless signes of burning!

as for RCDs... what earth system is it, and are the sockets used by unskilled persons not under supervision...!!

personally i would tell em to upgrade purely for insurance reasons..! 1 dead patron/staff member = no business and possibly jail!

 

[coxyboy]

Again many thanks for your usefull advice.. It it a TNs earthing system if this helps and yes sockets are used by unskilled persons not under supervision
many thanks

 

[Richard Burns]

I recently carried out a PIR on a pub. It had 4no. Fuse boards one in the bar area just for lighting - this board had no rcd protection - is this needed for a pub? And there was a lot of circuits doubled up or even three lines in one mcb - should I recommend that I upgrade the fuse board so each circuit has its own mcb. I know this is good pratice to do this but what code would I give for doubled circuits c3 or c2?
No code, not best practice but no different than have more than one light fitting from one MCB (so long as the MCB is not overloaded)

fuse board two is in the cellar and does mainly sockets and heaters. It is a really old fuse board with the big brown mcb's. Again I take it that most if not all these circuits need rcd protection? C2? I've suggested that the fuse board is upgraded with rcbo's for each circuit to avoid unwanted tripping.

most of these circuits would need RCD protection (by current regs) if the cables are buried <50mm in the walls, so long as they are not sockets intended for use outside, then C3.

Fuseboard three and four were in the living area of the pub ie the flat and rented out rooms above. These were both split load boards and the right circuits were protected by the right rcd,s as required. I think thinking of doing two separate Certs one for the pub which would be unsatisfactory and one for the living area that would be satisfactory with only a few code 3's. Is this the best way to do it and I'm I allowed to do this...?

Probably a good call to do two reports. Splits the installation into commercial and domestic.

Would be interested to see other peoples views on commercial testing as I don't do these too often whereas I do upto four domestic tests on a daily basis. Any opinions , views or advice would be very helpful and I would be very grateful.

Many thanks
darren

As Durham says no difference in testing commercial/domestic only the conditions whereby in a domestic there are considered to be no people under the supervision of a skilled or instructed person. Legally in a commercial place they are under the supervision of a skilled or instructed person, (which is a load of rubbish).

Overall the installation sounds like it is pretty close to a basic pass. Recommendations are not part of an EICR, this is compliance with regs and safety for continued use assessment and report.
A covering letter may suggest a consumer unit upgrade as it would be safer, particularly in an environment with drunk people about and lots of liquid!

 

[Farmelectrics]

Code 3 for sockets

 

[pmanku]

Darren don't forget that the electrical system you are inspecting must be assessed against the BS 7671 regs in force at the time of installation. Hopefully you would have discussed the extent of the report with the person instructing you. The local authority usually have an interest in the Conditional Report. Finally make your Profession Liability insurance is paid up...not to be confused with Public Liability.

 

[Adam W]

I would treat a pub more as a domestic installation - in some big chain pubs there might be 3 phase kitchen equipment but by and large the reference method will be the same, and there's a lot of DIY that goes on in pubs.

RCD protection on lighting circuits wasn't required until the 17th, so the chances are that complies with the version of BS7671 which it was installed to.
I would push for RCD protection in the cellar due to it's use - when I worked in a pub I used to clean the cellar floor with a hose and a stiff broom.

 

[yellowvanman]

Darren don't forget that the electrical system you are inspecting must be assessed against the BS 7671 regs in force at the time of installation.

Sorry thats wrong, it must be assessed against the current regulations! In most (majority) cases its difficult to assess the installation date let alone any added mods.

 

[needasparks]

Going slightly sideways on the thread, its important to find out the purpose of the report sticking with yellowvanman line as it could be for a licence and not just a safety requirement for insurance.
I understand in this instance its just a pub so more than likely its just insurance request but at some public houses they may have a public entertainment(PE) or even a music song & dance (MSD) licence and different licences and the trusted landlord may not make you aware of this. differing councils have their own regulations on equipment and cabling installed and may alter the outcome ie a MSD cannot have pvc installed and a PE must have rcd protection to public area socket outlets, but as i say councils have different views. just don't get caught out as its your name on the cert and when little johnny gets hurt your cert goes to court.

 

[Guest55]

Sorry thats wrong, it must be assessed against the current regulations! In most (majority) cases its difficult to assess the installation date let alone any added mods.

^^^ This.
exactly right.
Let just say you're inspecting an installation fitted during the 15th edition regs.....
Well unless you're over 45 and have an extremely good memory you're not going to have a working knowledge
of that wiring standard anyway ??
So you use the current regs.
Simples.

 

[pmanku]

Sorry thats wrong, it must be assessed against the current regulations! In most (majority) cases its difficult to assess the installation date let alone any added mods.

I stand corrected ...Yellowvanman...smack on wrist