Planning Permission for Commercial Roofs

[SRE]

I've just been told by our local authority that we need planning permission for any agricultural/commercial buildings, that it doesn't come under permitted development. Has anyone else come accross this????

 

[TedM]

Other than in Scotland, where a new law comes into force on 18th March, all non-domestic buildings in England and Wales require planning permission for microgeneration.

The current permitted development here only applies to dwellings.

There was a consultation on bringing in permitted development for commercial buildings in England and Wales but it hasn't materialised yet.

 

[SRE]

Thanks TedM, I can't believe I missed that. Someone make me feel better and tell me they didn't know either .......

 

[SolarCity]

SRE, I'm with you. I didn't know either. And I have installed commercial sites too....

 

[dansk]

TedM your like the legal eagle of this forum - good solid info again...thanks

SRE - i didnt know either - nor did i know PV is PD in a conservation area.

 

[TedM]

You can keep up to date with all this sort of thing by checking my blog occasionally - Infinitely renewable ramblings

 

[Markc]

I have to say I'm with you...........and.......Bugger!

 

[SRE]

Permitted development

A. The installation, alteration or replacement of solar PV or solar thermal equipment on—
(a)a dwellinghouse; or
(b)a building situated within the curtilage of a dwellinghouse.
A.2. Development is permitted by Class A subject to the following conditions—
(a)solar PV or solar thermal equipment installed on a building shall, so far as practicable, be sited so as to minimise its effect on the external appearance of the building;
(b)solar PV or solar thermal equipment shall, so far as practicable, be sited so as to minimise its effect on the amenity of the area; and
(c)solar PV or solar thermal equipment no longer needed for microgeneration shall be removed as soon as reasonably practicable.

Ok, so I've looked at this again, thanks to TedM - as I see it I'm planning to install 9.8kwp on a garage that is within the curtilage of the property, the pv isn't not going to be used for commercial reasons, no vat being reclaimed, not offset against any allowances all claims against domestic use in an off gas grid house. I reckon it comes under permitted development. What do other peeps think???

 

[Worcester]

It is the property not the use that matters (e.g rent-a-roof is a "commercial" installtion)

1) Is the 'dwelling house' a privately owned residence?
and
2) Is the 'garage' within it included within the dwelling house council tax or is it subject to business rates?

"Dwelling house" and "curtilage" are key definitions, and there may be some discussion if the garage is not included as part of the same property for council tax purposes.

We recently installed a system on a private swimming pool roof without the need to a planning application.

 

[SRE]

Thanks Worcester. The house is privately owned but I'm fairly sure that the garage will pay business rates. However I'm 99% certain it's within the curtilage of the house and they are owned by the same people. The problem is this planning department are rubbish to work with at the best of times and they haven't even seen the second amendment to the planning act that TedM gave us a link to. They only work in defensive mode so I don't really want to ask the question unless I have to because they'll undoubtedly say yes it needs permission because they don't know otherwise.

 

[SRE]

For everyone's info - just in case you don't see my other thread, Worcester helped me through the portal (didn't think pv was classed as machinery!) and the cost up to 1000m2 is £335 for commercial pv 1001 m2 goes up to £670.

 

[Worcester]

Slightly off topic but related, are you guys all aware of the situation on Building Control / Building Regs,

I can confirm that a building regulation application is not required for Solar PV Panels if the person carrying out the installation is registered with a Competent Person Scheme as detailed in row 17 of Schedule 3 of the Building Regulations 2010. It has been interpreted that under Row 20, the installer is responsible for ensuring compliance with Part A.

what this mean is that as MCS Certified we are 'Competent Persons' - this applies to both the electrical (Part P stuff) and the Structural Calcs.

However the structural calcs MUST be done on EVERY job, commercial and domestic.

"4.4.4 The contractor shall ensure that the roof structure is capable of withstanding the loads (static and wind loads) that will be imposed by the PV modules and their mounting arrangements. If there is any doubt, a structural engineer must be consulted."

Our NAPIT assessor insisted that a visual inspection was inadequate.

If anyone needs, I can put you in touch with my tame engineer, (just PM me)


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[SRE]

Other than in Scotland, where a new law comes into force on 18th March, all non-domestic buildings in England and Wales require planning permission for microgeneration.

The current permitted development here only applies to dwellings.

There was a consultation on bringing in permitted development for commercial buildings in England and Wales but it hasn't materialised yet.

http://www.communities.gov.uk/documents/planningandbuilding/pdf/smallscalesummary.pdf Here it is clearly recommending permitted development for non domestic dwellings. It was published in Nov 2009 so what's happened to the recommendations????? I'm going to email Communities & Local Government to see what they say and I'll back it up with an email to my local MP suggesting it's putting ridiculous constraints on sme microgeneration.

 

[TedM]

Ok, so I've looked at this again, thanks to TedM - as I see it I'm planning to install 9.8kwp on a garage that is within the curtilage of the property, the pv isn't not going to be used for commercial reasons, no vat being reclaimed, not offset against any allowances all claims against domestic use in an off gas grid house. I reckon it comes under permitted development. What do other peeps think???

I'm a bit confused here by what you mean by "garage". Is this a building for the houseowner to keep his car in over-night or something else? If it can handle 10kWp on the roof then it must be pretty big.

If it is a normal garage then I can't see why business rates would apply, and yes, it would count as part of the dwelling within the curtilage so would be covered by permitted development.

If it is a building where a business is run from, and so subject to business rates, then the permitted development won't apply. Key here will be - does the owner have planning permission to run a business on that property? If so it will have a Class of Use associated with it. This will be commercial. (Could be opening a little can of worms here if the owner is running a business and doesn't have planning permission for it.)

Also does the garage have its own supply and MPAN for meter - or just run from the house?

 

[SRE]

Yes, they are bound to have planning permission to run a business, there's 2 large garages within 10 metres of the house on the same land. There's a new 3 phase supply being installed to the house but because the transformer is in the middle of the yard between the house and the garage it's cheaper to have the supply run to the garage first but it's only going to be for domestic use - not sure why they went down the 3 phase route it was all done before we came along.

It's a bit frustrating because it can't be seen from the road, it's in a very rural area where it's bothering no-one and the government are cleary being advised to allow permitted development and it's next to no miles from the Scottish border