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courtwba1
does any1 now of a course i can do in the west midlands,to learn how to profram plc's i am a novice
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denizen360
Hi friend.. why you are wasting your money.. you can learn plc programming yourself itself ..it is very simple.. from sourceforge you can download plc simulator and you can make ladder logic in it..
PLC programming tutorial
simulator : ClassicLadder | Free Science & Engineering software downloads at SourceForge.net
PLC programming tutorial
simulator : ClassicLadder | Free Science & Engineering software downloads at SourceForge.net
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Darkwood
If you remember logic functions from school and had no problem with them then you can easily self teach with a starter kit ... i prefer siemens logo and when i first got the kit it took me 1hr to et to grips with it and write a simple programme, if you are wanting more advanced programming then yes a course is advisable but myself i gave myself the time to learn it and its second nature now, the only design point you have to be aware of is making the programme idiot proof as with all control systems as well as fail safe too.
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Darkwood
I never touched a PLC until 5 years ago i bought a starter kit and loaded the software up onto computer, id done a working programme within the hour as its that easy, the logo has a book thats easy to follow and quick to pick up but to write advanced programmes you really do need a working knowledge of control systems so you dont write a fuctional but unsafe programme, alot of the thinking is needed to try make it fool proof and fail safe.
E.G.
If input 1(switch) and input 2(switch) are positive then close output relay 1(light)
This is a simple logic gate using 'AND' gate, if input-1 AND input 2 are positive then the light is lit if the input are configured any other way than both positive then the lamp wont light, change the 'AND' gate for an 'OR' gate and the lamp will light if either input or even both are are positive and will only be unlit with both switches off.
E.G.
If input 1(switch) and input 2(switch) are positive then close output relay 1(light)
This is a simple logic gate using 'AND' gate, if input-1 AND input 2 are positive then the light is lit if the input are configured any other way than both positive then the lamp wont light, change the 'AND' gate for an 'OR' gate and the lamp will light if either input or even both are are positive and will only be unlit with both switches off.
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Darkwood
Here's a very basic loic programme the boxes on the left may be 24v inputs if any give a 24v signal then the 'OR' gate will give an output to the 'AND' gate which will only give and output if both is inputs are positive, this then will send signal to output ... this can be a 24v output or closing a relay which will have the control wire to operate the secondary supply in this case.
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Oh my gosh, I hate the words 'simple' and plc programming put in the same sentence.
The logo plc and other programmable relay devices aren't really plc's.
Sure you can make them do small tasks and fool yourself you are a programmer but you might notice they hardly ever feature
in real automation projects. (and in no situation vacant for a programmer do they ever ask for someone who can program a Siemens logo)
If someone says it's easy or simple, they haven't done it for real.
Of course you can teach yourself PLC programming; it's a long hard slog and you have to have certain knowledge before you start.
All the 'field' devices have to, and can talk to the plc. That's not just buttons and limit switches - Transducers, P to I devices, Inverters, temperature devices etc etc.
If you want to teach yourself, be prepared to burn the midnight oil with a plc, the software and a good programming book.
Starting at page 1 and not moving on until you have fully understood it.
The logo plc and other programmable relay devices aren't really plc's.
Sure you can make them do small tasks and fool yourself you are a programmer but you might notice they hardly ever feature
in real automation projects. (and in no situation vacant for a programmer do they ever ask for someone who can program a Siemens logo)
If someone says it's easy or simple, they haven't done it for real.
Of course you can teach yourself PLC programming; it's a long hard slog and you have to have certain knowledge before you start.
All the 'field' devices have to, and can talk to the plc. That's not just buttons and limit switches - Transducers, P to I devices, Inverters, temperature devices etc etc.
If you want to teach yourself, be prepared to burn the midnight oil with a plc, the software and a good programming book.
Starting at page 1 and not moving on until you have fully understood it.
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Darkwood
Welcome to the Forum steve.
Im not sure where your strong feeling arises here no one has said PLC programming is simple and yes agree its a very complex system and can take yrs to fully learn, what was said is its easy to learn the very basics of say a logo or zelio etc and write a simple program ....
Ill disagree with you with regards to these units not been PLC's by definition of the programming of both Ladder and function block form is basically the same as a high end system its just the advanced options and available I/O's can be limited on the smaller ones even with expension modules, my own responses were as an introduction level programming and i do believe this can be picked up really quickly but i did express id recommend a college course to progress any further, im a electrical engineer and have fitted 20+ PLC's (Zelio and logo my preferred choice) last year in my automated control systems utilising the many advanced functions of them to talk to analogue and digital devices, the new generation of devices now incorporate the functions usually only found in larger PLC units.
Im not sure where your strong feeling arises here no one has said PLC programming is simple and yes agree its a very complex system and can take yrs to fully learn, what was said is its easy to learn the very basics of say a logo or zelio etc and write a simple program ....
Ill disagree with you with regards to these units not been PLC's by definition of the programming of both Ladder and function block form is basically the same as a high end system its just the advanced options and available I/O's can be limited on the smaller ones even with expension modules, my own responses were as an introduction level programming and i do believe this can be picked up really quickly but i did express id recommend a college course to progress any further, im a electrical engineer and have fitted 20+ PLC's (Zelio and logo my preferred choice) last year in my automated control systems utilising the many advanced functions of them to talk to analogue and digital devices, the new generation of devices now incorporate the functions usually only found in larger PLC units.
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I agree that logo's, alpha's and the like have improved over the years in terms of functions and perhaps you can get something functioning within an hour.
But my emphasis was meant to be on the word 'simple'. It implies that anyone can do it without too much effort.
It might mislead someone to have a go without realising the implications of their actions.
Firstly, machines can and do kill people. A programmer is responsible for making sure the PLC/ logo etc knows exactly what is happening all of the time
and knows what to do in the event of something happening that wasn't planned.
eg: It would be easy enough to program a cutting blade to move between 2 limit switches. The plc says - is the blade on the 'home' limit switch - yes. Has the conveyor belt stopped - yes - ok then move the blade to the 'cut' limit switch. A nice simple bit of logic and the blade cuts correctly all day.
Then one day, the contactor sticks in, the programmer didn't take any inputs from the contactor to say in or out. There was no 'motion stopped' proving device - or the 'cut' limit switch has fallen off or failed.
The cutting blade is told to go because the plc turned off the output to the conveyor contactor (but it's stuck in) or it does not know that the limit switch has fallen off - so the blade sets off at full speed maybe crashing into objects on the moving belt or then going past where the limit switch should be and smashing into whatever because the programmer didn't know to program a timer to stop the blade if the limit switch is not actuated in time.
And that example is just a small part of a fully automated machine.
So my point is and was plc programming encompasses more than the ability to press a button and make an output come on. So don't go into it lightly thinking it's not so hard.
It needs intelligence, awareness and an understanding of 'how things work' before you start on page 1
But my emphasis was meant to be on the word 'simple'. It implies that anyone can do it without too much effort.
It might mislead someone to have a go without realising the implications of their actions.
Firstly, machines can and do kill people. A programmer is responsible for making sure the PLC/ logo etc knows exactly what is happening all of the time
and knows what to do in the event of something happening that wasn't planned.
eg: It would be easy enough to program a cutting blade to move between 2 limit switches. The plc says - is the blade on the 'home' limit switch - yes. Has the conveyor belt stopped - yes - ok then move the blade to the 'cut' limit switch. A nice simple bit of logic and the blade cuts correctly all day.
Then one day, the contactor sticks in, the programmer didn't take any inputs from the contactor to say in or out. There was no 'motion stopped' proving device - or the 'cut' limit switch has fallen off or failed.
The cutting blade is told to go because the plc turned off the output to the conveyor contactor (but it's stuck in) or it does not know that the limit switch has fallen off - so the blade sets off at full speed maybe crashing into objects on the moving belt or then going past where the limit switch should be and smashing into whatever because the programmer didn't know to program a timer to stop the blade if the limit switch is not actuated in time.
And that example is just a small part of a fully automated machine.
So my point is and was plc programming encompasses more than the ability to press a button and make an output come on. So don't go into it lightly thinking it's not so hard.
It needs intelligence, awareness and an understanding of 'how things work' before you start on page 1
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Darkwood
You are misinterpreting what i said i said you can create a simple logic programme i never misled the OP as i said anything past a very simple programme will need tutoring and i also backed this up with explaining the hardest part of PLC programming is to ensure its fail safe.... as im the only one who use the word simple i assume you refer to my posts .... im in total agreement in what you say but im confused why you creating the argument as i clearly stated the hardest part is making sure the system is fail safe , ive read through the thread a few times and it just seems you have misinterpreted it....
I learnt plc programming 4 yrs ago and im self taught...ill admit im above average in the grey matter department and i have developed complex plc controlled systems recently that has passed all fail safe/ risk assessment and my systems are talking to encoders, inverters ect and ive also linked them to the phone network for remote signalling so although i see your angle you really are preaching to the wrong person as i can suck eggs already.
Reread the posts i never said its simple 'period' as a system i only said you can easily create a simple programme quickly ... the basis of logic programming is very easy to understand and a little hurdle to get over ..implementing it into a control system is a more complex issue and requires a deeper understanding and components fail and this should be included in the risk assessment. To note here is PLC programming errors and failure should not impart risk of injury or life as with any control system...
I learnt plc programming 4 yrs ago and im self taught...ill admit im above average in the grey matter department and i have developed complex plc controlled systems recently that has passed all fail safe/ risk assessment and my systems are talking to encoders, inverters ect and ive also linked them to the phone network for remote signalling so although i see your angle you really are preaching to the wrong person as i can suck eggs already.
Reread the posts i never said its simple 'period' as a system i only said you can easily create a simple programme quickly ... the basis of logic programming is very easy to understand and a little hurdle to get over ..implementing it into a control system is a more complex issue and requires a deeper understanding and components fail and this should be included in the risk assessment. To note here is PLC programming errors and failure should not impart risk of injury or life as with any control system...
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I'm not really having a go at you Darkwood, it's more for other readers that might come across these posts because they want to learn PLC programming.
Many electricians do want to learn it but are not sure what is required of them.
The first step would be to find out which brand of plc is prevalent in your area. There are probably 3 major players - Siemens, A Bradly and Mitsubishi.
All of these have software that is totally different even though the plc's do the same thing. (check out jobs.co.uk - if they want a programmer they want proficiency in at least one of those brands)
So you need to learn one of the market leader's software.
And if you are not allowed to learn at work, set your shop up at home and as I said before - burn the midnight oil until the fog clears. (BTW the financial rewards are great too)
Don't expect that within a day you will be up to speed, it's a long hard (but worthwhile) slog.
Many electricians do want to learn it but are not sure what is required of them.
The first step would be to find out which brand of plc is prevalent in your area. There are probably 3 major players - Siemens, A Bradly and Mitsubishi.
All of these have software that is totally different even though the plc's do the same thing. (check out jobs.co.uk - if they want a programmer they want proficiency in at least one of those brands)
So you need to learn one of the market leader's software.
And if you are not allowed to learn at work, set your shop up at home and as I said before - burn the midnight oil until the fog clears. (BTW the financial rewards are great too)
Don't expect that within a day you will be up to speed, it's a long hard (but worthwhile) slog.
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