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sledgehammer

As a domestic spark who's seen some commercial and industrial I'm wondering how to progress. I've looked at some jobs and they seem to want the earth for starters, but if I want to learn plc's and trend controls to be able to apply for some of these jobs, how do I even start?
 
One of the problems is training tends to be product based. So you learn one type and the company you apply to uses another.

You can get several simulator programs. I’ve never used them, sorry but you’ll have look for yourself. Telemecanique site is a good place to start.

Ladder programming is the easiest to use but literal is becoming more dominant.
 
Ive got Allen Bradley training, but thats because my company uses Allen Bradley, of course theres siemens, Mitsubishi, ormon are the main contenders although we have a crouzet which is Boolean algebra logic, really hard to understand unless your a mathematician !!
 
Download Zelio Soft 2 package for free and have a play about with it in the pretty picture mode and see what you can design ... anything you highlight has an associated help option to explain its use....this isn't the way to learn but it gives you a beginners insight what to expect. Another good easy package is Siemens Logo which you can download for free....
 
Two of my customers users Mitsubishi Melsecs, quite old now and plentiful on ebay.

With a small investment you can buy a second hand plc, get a cable and download the software free from the Mitsubishi site and start playing. Thats what i did having been away from plcs for a decade or two

Stick it on a board with a handful of switches for inputs and some lamps for outputs and you will get the basics. Sadly the needs today are on HMI programming and networking which is a bit harder - good luck.

Personally, I have left the plc game too long and its really moved on, now i stick to fault finding and minor alterations to programming.
 
As a domestic spark who's seen some commercial and industrial I'm wondering how to progress. I've looked at some jobs and they seem to want the earth for starters, but if I want to learn plc's and trend controls to be able to apply for some of these jobs, how do I even start?

Buy an Allen Bradley 800 for sixty quid, it has 8 inputs and four outputs, the software is free to download (Components Connect Workbench) from the Rockwell site. It comes with a beginners tutorial. Really easy and cheaper than a course.
 
As above but I'm not a massive fan of CCW to be honest. Buy a small micrologix 1000 plc and download rs logix 500 micro starter off rockwells site. Really good starting point for ladder logic in my opinion.
 
I started with hard wired logic, Solicon, NorBit followed by Logicon 1 & 2.

Texas Instruments was the first PLC systems we used. We went on to Mitsubishi Medoc. Which I still like.

I moved to another company where Modicon ruled, one look at it “it’s the same as Taxas Instruments”.

If you enter in to an established company that is already using PLC’s or what ever, I’m sorry but you’re in at the deep end. Most companies will put you with an experienced guy for a while. If he’s any good he will take a back seat as soon as possible, just giving you hints when you’re going off course. The last one I was with took it to the extreme, he stayed in the mess room drinking tea while I was doing the blue arsed fly impression.

One of the most important things is to learn the process. As with any process the operator can be you’re best friend or sworn enemy. Those that will give the right information and those that want to sit on their arse while you flounder around.
To go in to industry now and PLC’s are a fact of life, how far you go with them is between you and the company. Some will have Fred in the office that does all modifications, other like the last one I worked for will give you more than enough rope to hang yourself.

Enough rope? I got in to an argument with one of the directors. One program would get it’s self in to a loop and refuse to do anything. I’d been there two months and was told to get on with a total re-write of the program. Took three months on and off to write. Got there in the end. Talk about flying by the seat of your pants.

I got so fed up of my programming being blamed for one machine going wrong I put a monitor system in the program tracking what the operator was doing. Didn’t tell anyone about it until the blame was flying around again.
Went in to the office for the usual arse kicking party. Asked what time the incident had happened. Then produced a print out of the machines actions at that time. Process guys were playing about with manual control. Next time it went wrong the process manager is guest of honour at the party. I was invited along so I could produce the incriminating evidence.

At one point the company brought in a consultant production engineer from our parent company, I was paired with him. He was French/Spanish, I’ve never come across anyone so laid back.
“Tony I want to try…..”
“It won’t work”
“I want to try it”
“OK on your head be it”
Crunch Bang “Oh S**t”.
“You can go and tell the fitters to fix it, I’m locking myself in the switchroom to put the program back”.
It went two ways, if I came up with an idea. He’d carry the can for me if it went wrong. It got to the stage that I could 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] guess him. Changes made before he asked for them. the classic being him collaring me “Tony I want the XXXX to do whatever”. “Have you watched it for the last week?” I walked away laughing, I’d put in the program change just to see if it would work. It did, but I didn’t tell him.

Johan and I had Carte Blanche to speed the process up. Which we did, but there were a few cock ups on the way.

He still owes me a steak dinner due to him betting me I couldn’t get a machine to do something in a set time.
The bet was I couldn’t get a machine to finish its 10 minute cycle within 2 seconds of the ideal stop time, I got it to 0.5 seconds. He cleared of to China before paying up!

Best of luck if you go for PLC’s. I’ve had 35 years of fun with them. (And a nervous breakdown). There are times when you really do have to think “outside the box”.




A favourite question used to be a DOL motor starter. It isn’t as you may think on a PLC. NC becomes NO!
 
Very briefly I would recommend you also familiarise yourself with BS13849/62061 etc which are safety standards relating to safety related control systems which if you plan on including machine guards, E-Stops etc into your PLC function you will need to know.
 
Very briefly I would recommend you also familiarise yourself with BS13849/62061 etc which are safety standards relating to safety related control systems which if you plan on including machine guards, E-Stops etc into your PLC function you will need to know.

Most machines I've worked on in last few years tend to have a seperate safety PLC
 
That's true, but there can still be a reliance on a PLC interface between safety relays/PLC etc.

If the chap is considering going down the PLC route then I presume he has a market in mind for example AHU, ancillary control etc and so he will almost certainly have to factor safety functions etc, especially if he carries out a risk hazard analysis.

My advice to him is to broaden his knowledge as much as possible, not only of PLC logic but the standards that are required also. At the end of the day you don't just learn how to wire a lighting circuit or ring main, you need to know the standards (BGB) that you have to comply too.
 
Knowledge of safety systems is required if you are going in to programming. For fault finding, not really required but good to have.

The OP has gone missing so we don’t know what his intensions are. Not many get to go in to programming, but the ability to use the PLC to fault find is required now.





I stick with what I said, you have to learn the process or machine operation to have a chance of doing anything with it. I changed industries and I asked could I spend the first couple of weeks on the shop floor.
I learnt a lot then, including who were the lead swingers. “It won’t work, we’re going for a coffee until you get it running!” I shouted them back just as they got to the coffee, “it’s running but making waste.” Waste came out of their bonus! It was no mistake it was making waste, it would have run perfect when started, I changed the settings as punishment!

The other lads on the shop floor got to know me. “Tony we want a drink can you ……..” I marked their production sheet as a breakdown. They got their coffee and due to me signing their sheet, they got average bonus.
 
We don't get a chance to fault find on PLCs where I am now, if the line has stopped for a couple of minutes the supervisor is calling "tech support" to the job, usually, by the time they arrive we have the line running again.
Due to the size of the factory they sometimes have to walk a fair distance and have given the supervisor a b*****king for wasting their time, one even said "let your sparkies do the job they are capable of"
 
good ideas

I'm here. App keeps crashing so difficult to keep up. I've had some exposure but need to learn, play and get some experience. I think I'll pick up a cheap one as suggested and simulate a install. It's tougher I feel being over 40 now to get into and/or have the time. It's just that jobs ask for experience on practically everything, they must just be hoping you have a handful of the criteria and whatever is a bonus, especially since some of the salaries aren't that impressive and I think this area is very valuable. Thanks for all the input, I'll be back for more help once I've started I'm sure.
 

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