Please Help, Bloody Hydravane Compessor???

[E14RKS]

Hi guys, wired a compressor for a customer yesterday, he brought a hydrovane hv07 off ebay, wired it to existing mem 2 board using c20 3 pole MCB, backed by overall RCD. using 6mm SWA, its quite a complex compressor, digital panel, etc. now the strange bit, if i put the emergency button in( e brake on) the display comes on, as soon as i pull the e brake out it trips the rcd, now, straight away i thought fault with the compressor, however i was messing around with it kept resetting the rcd then all of a sudden it stayed on, pressed green button ran up to 8 bar with no fault codes, i then pressed the emergency button in to stop it as soon as i pull out to start again it trips, was wondering if you guys had any ideas why its intemitant,do these compressors not like rcd? etc? any help appreciated, steve

 

[44ALLAN]

Its called leakage mate...........ramp your rcd 1st off..............my compressor works no probs.... 30mA too
Some just won't lol

 

[E14RKS]

Its called leakage mate...........ramp your rcd 1st off..............my compressor works no probs.... 30mA too
Some just won't lol

Hi mate, thanks for the reply, do you think the compressor could just be leaking to earth without a fault, i cant seem to find any specs on the compressor, see if they spec a particular rcd, etc.

 

[Marvo]

The compressor itself shouldn't have leakage but there may be surge arrestors that are dumping transients to ground during start-up. There may be a compounded issue with standing leakage on other existing circuits causing cumulative to exceed 30mA. I'd run a 250v IR test on the motor to start with and maybe consider a dedicated RCD for the compressor at 100mA if necessary.

 

[telectrix]

i'll go with that as well, marvo. thing is, does it neeed a bloody RCD anyway?

 

[Marvo]

thing is, does it neeed a bloody RCD anyway?

TBH I'm not sure what the UK regs require regarding RCD protection. Where I am it wouldn't need RCD if it's on its own circuit and MCB.

 

[telectrix]

UK regs require RCDs on socket outlets<32A and on cables buried in walls < 50mm deep. also on all bathroom circuits. the first 2 can be waived if the installation is under the control of a skilled or instructed person/s.

 

[E14RKS]

hi guys, thanks for your replys,it does seem strange that every now and again it will start and run fine, as it only starts occasionally is there any true way of proving that earth leakage is causing this? the board in the industrial unit is a mem memshield 2 and has a overall rcd, obviously im going to have to somehow change the rcd unit or get the compressor circuit off the rcd? any ideas how i can prove it and easiest cheapest way of rectifying it, i think the rcd had 0.01 writen on it?
many thanks steve

 

[E14RKS]

hi also understand it doesnt require and rcd but the board that supplys it has a overall rcd main switch, thanks steve

 

[44ALLAN]

Or it might just be in a bloody great 'lean-to' built onto the side of a factory with water p'eeing in everywhere and the concrete floor saturated and the resident spark thinks...........I'm gonna put an rcd on that circuit( as an 'extra' to ADS) until I can get them to weather proof the area?

It happens but probs not in a house

 

[Marvo]

Is the RCD in the board doubling as the main OCPD or main isolator as well?

 

[44ALLAN]

hi guys, thanks for your replys,it does seem strange that every now and again it will start and run fine, as it only starts occasionally is there any true way of proving that earth leakage is causing this? the board in the industrial unit is a mem memshield 2 and has a overall rcd, obviously im going to have to somehow change the rcd unit or get the compressor circuit off the rcd? any ideas how i can prove it and easiest cheapest way of rectifying it, i think the rcd had 0.01 writen on it?
many thanks steve

Steve all due respect mate but if you don't know what the 0.01 means then you should be contacting someone who does.........be good mate

 

[E14RKS]

hi yes this board has a rcd main switch,(4 pole) rcd and main switch in one, so this is protecting all circuits, just need some advice on how to prove it and easiest way to rectify, many thanks for all help so far, steve

 

[E14RKS]

44allan not a problem, i dont do loads and loads of commercial, do alot of domestic but time served, obviously with more domestic is 30ma, so any ideas on proving this and altering this? many thanks

 

[E14RKS]

Just Thinking dont you think that 0.01 is very sensitive for a industrial unit using plenty of machines that could all be contributing to leaking to earth could this new machine bit tiping it over? etc

 

[Marvo]

Even with an RCD rated at 100mA it could be cumulative leakage from multiple circuits.

 

[44ALLAN]

44allan not a problem, i dont do loads and loads of commercial, do alot of domestic but time served, obviously with more domestic is 30ma, so any ideas on proving this and altering this? many thanks

Well............0.01 means it's a 100mA RCD..............does that help?

 

[netblindpaul]

Does it mean 100mA?
Check your sums 44ALAN?
Does the compressor have a VSD?

 

[44ALLAN]

Just Thinking dont you think that 0.01 is very sensitive for a industrial unit using plenty of machines that could all be contributing to leaking to earth could this new machine bit tiping it over? etc

Leakage Clamp it mate then take it from there

I have compressor/welding sets the lot with 30mA 'cover'.
Don't need it, according to many,but it ain't tripping/it's tested regularly and it's far safer than just ADS .....IMO
If it trips............I'll assess then maybe put 100mA on the circuit as 'additional/supplementary' to the ADS.

If it's there and available use it

 

[44ALLAN]

Does it mean 100mA?
Check your sums 44ALAN?
Does the compressor have a VSD?

0.01 on an rcd means 100mA unless you can state otherwise VSD or not
Smiley face back at you and I raise

Big edit..............he meant 0.1 obviously :blush5:

And another edit..........bloody decimals fgs

 

[44ALLAN]

My apologies Paul

 

[Marvo]

Big edit..............he meant 0,001 obviously :blush5:

0.1A is 100mA. Given it's a commercial DB I'm guessing the RCD is most likely a 100mA and not the 10mA he stated.

 

[Knobhead]

Was it sold as “working” if yes. The simple answer:
Supply the compressor via a none RCD protected supply. If this means a separate 3Φ sub-board off the incoming then so be it.
If sold as untested, buyer beware!

I really can’t understand anyone putting a compressor or any (none portable) machine on a RCD supply. It’s just asking for trouble.

 

[44ALLAN]

Why rcd bathrooms or houses then?

In your opinion of course

 

[Knobhead]

You don’t get many compressors in a bathroom.

 

[High Tower]

You don’t get many compressors in a bathroom.

Where else would you keep it?

 

[brookster]

You have covered the simple things already like the emergency stop and brake wiring systems? Could be something mechanical causing the trip rather than earth leakage (non fault).
Going by what you are saying the compressor doesn't trip on start up, is there a way to apply the brake via the control panel?

 

[Engineer54]

If i was going to have an RCD on the supply to this compressor, it wouldn't be anything lower than 300mA. But then i wouldn't be installing an RCD in the first place, if it was my job!! lol!!

If this unit is tripping out the RCD main breaker, then it has to be a leakage problem doesn't it, otherwise it would be taking out the polly-phase MCB that's supplying the unit!! Is it that difficult within this factory unit installation, to provide a means of a separate supply to this compressor??

 

[brookster]

The RCD would trip before the MCB under fault conditions no?

 

[netblindpaul]

The RCD would trip before the MCB under fault conditions no?

Not necessarily, depends on the exact failure mode.

 

[snowhead]

Why rcd bathrooms or houses then?

In your opinion of course

You also don't get anyone using an industrial compressor with no clothes on, Oh go on then maybe the ODD one but they deserve the consequences if any occour.