Plumbers dictating earthing requirement

[sedgy34]

Have you had a plumber saying he cant pass the boiler cause the sparky hasnt cross bonded the boiler

 

[sparky1502]

yes and i ignore the muppet...lol

 

[Doomed]

If the manufacturers instructions ask for cross bonding then he is in the right, even if the cross bonding is pointless due to premises being fully RCD protected etc.

 

[RISElectrical]

Tried telling me in my own home when I had boiler serviced. Needless to say I still haven't cross bonded it

 

[Marvo]

Do the manufacturers insist on cross bonding to reduce corrosion maybe?

 

[Doomed]

It was sort of worth while doing once apon a time, and all the manufacturers insisted on it for safety (and to cover thier own backs) but times have moved on but the people who wright the manuals don't remove any potential safety instructions even if they are out of date to cover themselves.

 

[Marvo]

It's a strange one, surely they're sticking their necks out more by dictating the precise installation method than if they just said it must be installed as per local electrical regs and codes.

 

[sedgy34]

its not a reg to cross bond the boiler its the plumbers who are told to do it as its in there gas regs but they dont want to do it if a sparky is around they like to pass it on so they dont have to do it

 

[sedgy34]

think its a plumbers reg

 

[Geordie Spark]

its not a reg to cross bond the boiler its the plumbers who are told to do it as its in there gas regs but they dont want to do it if a sparky is around they like to pass it on so they dont have to do it

Before I retired, I had a foot in both camps as I was a Heating Engineer/Plumber/Gas Installer and a Spark.

If I was fitting a boiler, then I would cross bond it - even though I knew it was a pointless exercise, but if I was on the job in my capacity as a Spark I wouldn't.

I was speaking to a good mate of mine recently who is a very good boiler repair man & he was telling me that he & other people in the gas trade still think that boilers need to be cross bonded, but he couldn't tell me why.

 

[Megavolt]

It's not a gas reg might of been years ago but no longer and can't remember last time I seen it in boiler instructions but again it was years ago.

 

[PC Electrics]

This requirement used to be in the gas regs about 30 years ago. It was required in the days when the electrical continuity of the pipework connected to a [gas] boiler could not be guaranteed. About 25 or so years ago the British Standards for gas boiler design and construction were overhauled and updated. One of the requirements brought in was that the manifold connections must provide electrical continuity between pipework. This negated the need for 'cross bonding' and it was dropped from the requirements of the gas regs.
It was never an electrical reg.

If any "plumber" asks you to cross bond and insists it is a requirement ask him to ring Gas Safe (an orgnisation of which he should be a member!!!) and ask for the regulation number.

I thought gas safe registered installers had to go on 5 yearly updates to be able to renew their memberships?? Do they just sleep through these sessions?? Don't they keep up with their own regulation changes?? This question seems to be coming up a lot recently. To my mind it shows a lack of understanding of the gas reg requirements by gas installers and calls their competency into question.

PS this design and construction requirement for gas boilers does not apply to oil boilers and so most oil boilers still require cross bonding (it's usually in the manufacturers instructions).

 

[PC Electrics]

PS: if you are upgrading bonding in an old installation where there is still a very old boiler present, it would be prudent to check the continuity of the pipework at the boiler and cross bond if necessary. I do not have a precise date for this regulation.

 

[D80]

Would it not be the installers responsibility to ensure that the manufacturers instructions are met? Last couple of new builds I've done I've had nowt to do with the heating system other than to provide a spur for it. Everything else has been done by the installers.

With regards to gas boilers, how much is a non Gas Safe member allowed to do? Are sparkies permitted to start fitting external stats, timeclocks and the like?

 

[mogga]

It sounds like a case of "thats how its been done for years and we will continue to do it this way !!"

What about the ones with copper "tails" from boiler leading down to PVC pipework

 

[Megavolt]

Would it not be the installers responsibility to ensure that the manufacturers instructions are met? Last couple of new builds I've done I've had nowt to do with the heating system other than to provide a spur for it. Everything else has been done by the installers.

With regards to gas boilers, how much is a non Gas Safe member allowed to do? Are sparkies permitted to start fitting external stats, timeclocks and the like?

Yes you can work on any of the electrics

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Would it not be the installers responsibility to ensure that the manufacturers instructions are met? Last couple of new builds I've done I've had nowt to do with the heating system other than to provide a spur for it. Everything else has been done by the installers.

With regards to gas boilers, how much is a non Gas Safe member allowed to do? Are sparkies permitted to start fitting external stats, timeclocks and the like?

Yes, they can.
They can replace any electrical component, as long as it doesn't involve opening the combustion chamber, or undoing any gas pipework.

 

[mikehopkins]

Ive had this question. If it says in the manufacturer's installation that they need cross bonding then that instruction becomes part of the building regulations for that installation.if it is'nt in the installation instructions for that particular boiler ,ignore it.same applies to extract fans where it asks for a spur unit (as against using a 3 pole switch).

 

[Geordie Spark]

It sounds like a case of "thats how its been done for years and we will continue to do it this way !!"

What about the ones with copper "tails" from boiler leading down to PVC pipework

Manufacturers Instructions often state that a minimum of 300mm of copper pipe (tails) shall be fitted between the boiler & any plastic pipework, but again, there's no reference made to these being cross-bonded.

(NOTE: it is NOT permissible to use plastic pipe for the gas supply from meter to boiler - EVER !!)

I remember a year or so ago, in the Screwfix catalogue there were some fittings that were just straight solder pipe joints with a crimp terminal formed onto them. The idea was that you used these to join the pipes to the boiler, then crimped bits of yellow/green from one to another. I think they were in only one issue and they're not in the Screwfix catalogue any more.