pond and garden supply

[terry451]

Looking to supply power to a raised pond, for lights filters etc, Looking at the regs [17th] they only apply to swimming pools, paddling pools and fountains. see scope 702.11.

In the "Electrical guide to the building regs " section 5.7.5 all it says is, "all equipment must be designed for pond use".

Can somebody advise where i can find information relation to the regs and domestic garden ponds.?
As long as i use suitable ip rated connections and keep switch gear away from the water edge will i be ok ?

Terry

 

[Wotsit]

I think you will find it is swimming pools and other basins but not natural waters. Install as per raised basin P176 BRB.

 

[terry451]

I thought the same untill i was directed to the scope 702.11 which clearly states the section applies only to swimming pools, fountains and paddling pools and the surounding zones of these basins. no mention of ponds....page 176 is just a raised basin within the scope as above.

I also looked in the building regs guide, which clearly seperates ponds from swimming pools / basins. and puts it with shed and garden.

If i do follow section 702 then most of the equipment must be selv, but go to the local aquatic shop and most of the domestic pond pumps and filters are 230 volt. [even the big stuff for koi ponds] They are also selling multiple outlet junction box's for ponds, which would not comply with the regs in section 702 for swimming pools etc.

Hence my query, does anybody know if there a clear rule relating to ponds ?

T

 

[scotsparky]

Iwould follow secton 702. says it covers swimming pools and other Basins of water but not natual waters,lochs,rivers and such. It does not limmit itself just to pools and as such Ponds would come under its remit. The word ONLY does not appear in the scope which means its not limmitedd to whats been written.

 

[terry451]

I would normaly agree 702 is probably the most relivent section, and the word only does not appear in the text, I use only in the context the section clearly states it applies to swimming pools paddling pools and fountians, it makes no mention of pertaining to other artificial water source. If it did we would have to include any water basin including bird baths etc. which is clearly stuipid before somebody want to split hairs.
The last part clearly excludes natural pools of water, so this does not come into it.

As I said earlier there is no clear indication in this section '702' regarding ponds, and to include it as such would be making an assumption.

Given the hardware being supplied for ponds it would be almost impossible for any of it to be used if 702 was followed.

The building regs guide clearly has a separate section pertaining to ponds so the auther's must have seen a distinction .

Given all of the above, I repeat my original query.

Does anybody know of the regulations pertaining to garden ponds.?

and

If possible I would like to know from anybody that has been in this situation. Somebody out there must be working on ponds. what guide do you follow?

T

 

[scotsparky]

terry have alok at the definnitions what the regs call a Basin is any unnatureal pool of water if ther basin can be access by persons without a latter apply the swimming pool regs so your pond supply is covered by 702

 

[terry451]

what edition are you looking at ? in my copy [17th] definitions page 20 mentions basin of fountain and i did not see any other definition of a basin.....

Can anybody who is actualy doing this stuff comment. even off line. I feel this is important and i realy do not want have this subject blocked with a conversation between two people who are guessing.


thanks

Terry

many thanks to the private mail.....and something feel i can qoute if need be,

anybody else following this and can see any holes let me know.

one assumtion, most pumps will make a fountian and Mr and Mrs pond owner will want to see tinkly water [not my words] , pond may become a fountian so best practise take pond basin as fountian basin.

section 702.32 for fountians there is no zone 2.
[funny but on re-reading other sections have a habit of excuding fountains]

section 702.410.3.4.1
zone 0 and 1 for other equipment treat as for use when water not occupied.

following this advice it would appear this does not exclude the use of 230 volt equipment [goes without saying as long as it is rcd protected and complies with the relivent BS rating ] and allows switch and connections to be made from a common source over 2 metres from basin edge. As long as cables are protected in zone 1 [ducting] and no juntion box's in that zone.

This sounds good to me anybody see any flaws ?

T

 

[scotsparky]

terry i am using the New 17th

I agree is does say Basin of fountain.

In the scope of of section 702 it say on the top line that this section aplies to Swimming pools basin of fountains, basins of Paddling pools. I know there in no wording of the word POND howvever As an experiance electrician would assume theta a paddling pool and garden pond are very simmilar and as such would wire to section 702. This also allows me to use the 240 RCD protected equipment

You have to remember the regs dont cover every eventuallity and the sparks have to use there own technical knowlege to interpret them

 

[Guest123]

Hey.

How do you intend taking the power outdoors to the pond?? a 20A radial circuit to a weatherproof socket with all pumps and filters plugged in??

Lets not forget that anyone can buy pumps and filters and lights for their ponds and just plug them straight in without adhereing to any rules or regs at all. Some come with a selv transformer some dont.

Personally as long as there was 30mA protection to the supply circuit and all outdoor equipment had the correct IP rating and housed in an IP rated enclosure than I can see no problem. All the pumps and lights etc have all been designed for use underwater so use them. Any issues would be with the manufacturer as you have not interfered with the equipment itself merely plugged it in or connected it to a pond controller which itself would be more than likely plugged in or at most wired into a fused spur.

Hope this helps.

 

[terry451]

original plan was armoured radial to juntion/socket outlet. rcd/rcbo protected as for any garden/shed installation. then use this to connect to pond equipment. Decieded on some late reading of regs to belt a brace this was ok,
found problems with distance from basin edge of 'terminal equipment' in essence it would leave several meters of pump flex non armoured. further reading just made it worse, hence the request to anybody else who has been there.

if defined as a swimming pool then only selv allowed, if fountain easier but still have flex and connection problem.

end of day going to fix rcd/rcbo radial to a socket/junction box as supplied by pond company 2 metres min from basin edge so no fingers in socket and water, and run pump flex in large bore plastic duct to water edge. that way any plugs or cables can be pushed through without breaking/cutting the flex.

still open to other suggestions, but if you can not sleep try section 702.............

partner still maintains in guide to building regs [green book] it lists ponds under garden and shed not swimming pools hence a diffrent subject..........

 

[scotsparky]

just read the green book and it doesnt say much really.
It says all out door equipment must comply to general rules so RCBO, ip rating etc
As for 5.7.5 on Ponds it gives you a list of BSEN No which the equipment must comply to as well as some rcomendations. about routing and containment.

 

[terry451]

which comes back to checking if there is a rule and that i have not missed it,

As we all seem to be looking around the same area's in the guide/ reg books and nobody has come up with anything new, I have to take it there is no firm rule and have to use what i have got.

eg follow best practise and the rules for equipment for use when the pool is not occupied.
I am still not keen on the pump flex being so long and away from the pool, but what ever way i read it i am not allowed junction box's or switch gear any closer. hence heavy duty waste pipe duct. try putting a fork through that ) add an rcd and all should be well.....
Its got to be better then a socket'ed rcd and extn lead across the garden, which what one garden centre is selling for diy'ers.........(

thanks guys for your input and still open for suggestions if anybody knows better......

T