Pre-election budget

[Octopus]

Can we have evidence of that please or is it true because the Political Parties tell you it is ? Ask yourself a simple straight forward question. What percentage of your wages go on basics ? Basics being food, heat, shelter. Now compare that percentage to what it was in 2010.....I am hoping we are comparing like for like by the way - IE an electrician in 2010 to an electrician in 2015 - If you find the percentage lower today then you sir are one of the few. If your customers can do the same equation and come up with the same answer that they are now paying less as a percentage of their wages for the basics then you sir have stumbled across the perfect customer base as the average person has seen his/her living standards fall since 2010.

I've edited that for you. They are all the same..... except you have the Loch Ness Monster in charge!

 

[Diddy]

I've edited that for you. They are all the same..... except you have the Loch Ness Monster in charge!

Fair enough I can live with that. The second part is unfair though as she was on the news just the other evening saying how some of the comments from opponents and media are quite hurtful and upsetting for her personally.....poor wee sole - BTW I support SNP and Nicola but even I had to laugh at that. You don't get to the top of the tree by being a shrinking violet lol.

 

[Octopus]

Fair enough I can live with that. The second part is unfair though as she was on the news just the other evening saying how some of the comments from opponents and media are quite hurtful and upsetting for her personally.....poor wee sole - BTW I support SNP and Nicola but even I had to laugh at that. You don't get to the top of the tree by being a shrinking violet lol.

I've heard her being interviewed by the Guardian recently.

The SNP election manifesto is vote SNP, to keep the Tories out - shouldn't she be saying vote Labour to keep the Tories out?

What it actually means is vote SNP and then we can hold Labour to ransome to get another Independence poll!

 

[Diddy]

I've heard her being interviewed by the Guardian recently.

The SNP election manifesto is vote SNP, to keep the Tories out - shouldn't she be saying vote Labour to keep the Tories out?

What it actually means is vote SNP and then we can hold Labour to ransom to get another Independence poll!

Basically they are more left than labour currently and that suits me. Maybe her guardian interview was rubbish...never saw it myself. But they do offer an alternative up here and one I am happy to vote for...On policies not on some keep labour/Tories out rubbish. The Scottish labour party up here that really IS their manifesto - Vote SNP get Tories.....that is it no policies to speak of - it is a crying shame to see them reduced to a pathetic rabble up here.
The SNP is what it is. We can vote for them for an eternity and still Salmond and Sturgeon may never get their dream of independence - but the Scottish electorate can tag along for the ride on the back of some decent vote winning policies.
Even living in England you all know what the SNP have done for Scotland - Free prescriptions, Nobody pays bedroom tax/subsidy, They have invested in infrastructure which has created jobs and finally tuition fees.....which is the only freebie I would personally like to see gone...as I think England has actually got that right.

 

[Octopus]

Basically they are more left than labour currently and that suits me. Maybe her guardian interview was rubbish...never saw it myself. But they do offer an alternative up here and one I am happy to vote for...On policies not on some keep labour/Tories out rubbish. The Scottish labour party up here that really IS their manifesto - Vote SNP get Tories.....that is it no policies to speak of - it is a crying shame to see them reduced to a pathetic rabble up here.
The SNP is what it is. We can vote for them for an eternity and still Salmond and Sturgeon may never get their dream of independence - but the Scottish electorate can tag along for the ride on the back of some decent vote winning policies.
Even living in England you all know what the SNP have done for Scotland - Free prescriptions, Nobody pays bedroom tax/subsidy, They have invested in infrastructure which has created jobs and finally tuition fees.....which is the only freebie I would personally like to see gone...as I think England has actually got that right.

If England had the spending power head that Scotland had we would have the same benefits.

 

[Diddy]

If England had the spending power head that Scotland had we would have the same benefits.

The trouble with the old spending per head in England is that London skews the numbers by a lot.
London has £9866 per head as opposed to the south east which has a shameful £7756. But I believe spending as relative to several factors. Depressed areas is one, Vote buying is another. Now I know an area 20 miles from me gets tons more spent on it than my own area.....But the thing is the area I am talking about is/was a ghetto (or it would be in the states). It takes many years of extra public spending to get these areas up to standard.
One of the worst areas for public spending up here is Aberdeen....which is where tons of the cash coming into the economy comes from, Seems a bit perverse.
But again why should the SNP not have policies that take advantage of what cash is there and bribe the voters lol. Why dont Scottish labour or Scottish Tories for that matter find innovative ways to spend the "allowance" ? It's not as if SNP get any more than the other parties have to work with.
By the way everything is not rosey and sunny up here even with the extra £ per head. There is still areas with huge problems and people have been waiting 4+ hours in A+E.....it is not confined to down south.
I still think both the big two parties are missing a trick with HS2....I really think that cash could be much better spent improving normal everyday people lives down there. HS2 with benefit the few in the long run.

 

[Octopus]

The trouble with the old spending per head in England is that London skews the numbers by a lot.
London has £9866 per head as opposed to the south east which has a shameful £7756. But I believe spending as relative to several factors. Depressed areas is one, Vote buying is another. Now I know an area 20 miles from me gets tons more spent on it than my own area.....But the thing is the area I am talking about is/was a ghetto (or it would be in the states). It takes many years of extra public spending to get these areas up to standard.
One of the worst areas for public spending up here is Aberdeen....which is where tons of the cash coming into the economy comes from, Seems a bit perverse.
But again why should the SNP not have policies that take advantage of what cash is there and bribe the voters lol. Why dont Scottish labour or Scottish Tories for that matter find innovative ways to spend the "allowance" ? It's not as if SNP get any more than the other parties have to work with.
By the way everything is not rosey and sunny up here even with the extra £ per head. There is still areas with huge problems and people have been waiting 4+ hours in A+E.....it is not confined to down south.
I still think both the big two parties are missing a trick with HS2....I really think that cash could be much better spent improving normal everyday people lives down there. HS2 with benefit the few in the long run.

So what, if A & E is busy and I've sprained my ankle and theres a serious incident on the M3, I would expect to wait. Triage always means the most serious get seen first.

The 4 hour waiting "gimmic" is a seriously bad measure, because NOBODY who needs urgent attention, and enters A&E will always get priority.

Hospitals get round the 4 hour rule by making ambulances "wait" outside, then the ambulance service get slated for missing their times......

 

[plugsandsparks]

Can we have evidence of that please or is it true because the government tell you it is ? Ask yourself a simple straight forward question. What percentage of your wages go on basics ? Basics being food, heat, shelter. Now compare that percentage to what it was in 2010.....I am hoping we are comparing like for like by the way - IE an electrician in 2010 to an electrician in 2015 - If you find the percentage lower today then you sir are one of the few. If your customers can do the same equation and come up with the same answer that they are now paying less as a percentage of their wages for the basics then you sir have stumbled across the perfect customer base as the average person has seen his/her living standards fall since 2010.

No - sorry - you will just have to take me at my word.

 

[Guest77]

Take a Tory at his word? hmm, let me ponder that for a while :biggrin:

 

[Octopus]

Take a Tory at his word? hmm, let me ponder that for a while :biggrin:

Take ANY politician at their word, I don't need to ponder that!

 

[plugsandsparks]

"If you are not a socialist at 20, you have no heart, if you are not a conservative at 40, you have no head"

"The problem with socialism is that you run out of other peoples money to spend"

Copyright - Plugs and Sparks - 2015

 

[Guest77]

"If you are not a socialist at 20, you have no heart, if you are not a conservative at 40, you have no head"

"The problem with socialism is that you run out of other peoples money to spend"

Copyright - Plugs and Sparks - 2015

I disagree, it should read if you are not a conservative at 40 then you are not one of the 1% who are looked after, you are one of the 99% who are considered cannon fodder and scroungers.

 

[Diddy]

"If you are not a socialist at 20, you have no heart, if you are not a conservative at 40, you have no head"

"The problem with socialism is that you run out of other peoples money to spend"

Copyright - Plugs and Sparks - 2015

I have seen a set of statistics that prove that if you are not in the top 5% of earners and you vote conservative that statistically you are more likely to be a person of low intellect who struggles with everyday life. I will show you the data when you show me your data regarding the fact that you and your customers are better off.....or maybe i just smell political bs ????
By all means support whatever party you want...or whatever party your dad/grandad/best mate down the pub tells you too.....Just be open about it, don't try to make up bs about my party have done this that or the other...we are all better off ect. People in general are not stupid, we actually don't need a weatherman to tell us it's bloody raining outside. Just admit you are convinced by the conservative vision and nothing will change that....it would make more sense lol.

 

[Octopus]

I have seen a set of statistics that prove that if you are not in the top 5% of earners and you vote conservative that statistically you are more likely to be a person of low intellect who struggles with everyday life. I will show you the data when you show me your data regarding the fact that you and your customers are better off.....or maybe i just smell political bs ????
By all means support whatever party you want...or whatever party your dad/grandad/best mate down the pub tells you too.....Just be open about it, don't try to make up bs about my party have done this that or the other...we are all better off ect. People in general are not stupid, we actually don't need a weatherman to tell us it's bloody raining outside. Just admit you are convinced by the conservative vision and nothing will change that....it would make more sense lol.

what utter tosh

 

[Diddy]

what utter tosh

Did you actually read the very next line ? Did you think about the context in the way I replied directly to plug ? I will give you a hand here Murdoch -

No - sorry - you will just have to take me at my word.

 

[Octopus]

Did you actually read the very next line ? Did you think about the context in the way I replied directly to plug ? I will give you a hand here Murdoch -

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt this time but there is so much "mis information" written on the web somebody has to do their bit and correct them!

 

[Diddy]

If England had the spending power head that Scotland had we would have the same benefits.

Have thought some more about this statement - The english parties would cut tax long before restoring any type of public service, that is essentially the big difference in my opinion.

 

[andyb]

"The problem with socialism is that you run out of other peoples money to spend"

Copyright - Plugs and Sparks - 2015

I think a certain ex Prim Minister from Finchley might claim copyright for that quote.

Capitalists soon discovered 'socialism' when the banking sector crashed in 2008 though.
Happy to take our money.

 

[Octopus]

Have thought some more about this statement - The english parties would cut tax long before restoring any type of public service, that is essentially the big difference in my opinion.

You are over looking the fact that courtsey of the Barnett formula, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland have more to spend per head than England.

I'm not sure if any of the Political parties have the bxlls to scrap the Barnet formula - but they should, as it was introduced in 1978 as a temporary measure!

 

[Guest77]

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt this time but there is so much "mis information" written on the web somebody has to do their bit and correct them!

Yes and you write a lot of it Clive.

 

[plugsandsparks]

I have seen a set of statistics that prove that if you are not in the top 5% of earners and you vote conservative that statistically you are more likely to be a person of low intellect who struggles with everyday life. I will show you the data when you show me your data regarding the fact that you and your customers are better off.....or maybe i just smell political bs ????
By all means support whatever party you want...or whatever party your dad/grandad/best mate down the pub tells you too.....Just be open about it, don't try to make up bs about my party have done this that or the other...we are all better off ect. People in general are not stupid, we actually don't need a weatherman to tell us it's bloody raining outside. Just admit you are convinced by the conservative vision and nothing will change that....it would make more sense lol.

As I said, if you want me to share my last 5 years profits, my personal debt situation, the profits of my customers over the same period, then frankly you must think I am a fool. Hope not, I would hope that you think of me as a reasonably well educated, mature, conservative who has personally witnessed and been interested in politics for nearly 40 years.

 

[Diddy]

As I said, if you want me to share my last 5 years profits, my personal debt situation, the profits of my customers over the same period, then frankly you must think I am a fool. Hope not, I would hope that you think of me as a reasonably well educated, mature, conservative who has personally witnessed and been interested in politics for nearly 40 years.

Well I don't know you only your views...I generally take it as read that your average "old time" spark is reasonably educated. My whole point is you made a statement that you and your customers are better off than you were in may 2010....the national statistics do not support this. Obviously im not asking you to show me your books lol....even a stat that showed me say the residents of chesterfield are better off than 5 years ago would have done.....but even then IF they are they are bucking the national trend. Think it was mentioned on question time the other evening that the average family right now is £1600 worse off than they were at election 2010....this was not challenged when it was put to the panel, the big selling point of we will all be better off is a projection to the end of this year...We have all witnessed these projections before, it must be the most inaccurate science known to man.
So good luck to you if you and your area are better off, but you are one of the few not one of the many.

 

[plugsandsparks]

Well I don't know you only your views...I generally take it as read that your average "old time" spark is reasonably educated. My whole point is you made a statement that you and your customers are better off than you were in may 2010....the national statistics do not support this. Obviously im not asking you to show me your books lol....even a stat that showed me say the residents of chesterfield are better off than 5 years ago would have done.....but even then IF they are they are bucking the national trend. Think it was mentioned on question time the other evening that the average family right now is £1600 worse off than they were at election 2010....this was not challenged when it was put to the panel, the big selling point of we will all be better off is a projection to the end of this year...We have all witnessed these projections before, it must be the most inaccurate science known to man.
So good luck to you if you and your area are better off, but you are one of the few not one of the many.

I am old time, but not an old time spark, had many careers over the years. I run a business which sparks is the largest part. I think the real question is : If you have personally benefitted from the policies of the last 5 years and suffered from the previous 10 (which is exactly my situation) then should I vote for what has proven to be best for me ? OR perhaps if I consider my neighbours or even my parents who have seen a real reduction due to QE and inflation whilst income from investments have reduced. I know I have benefited whilst "pensioners" have suffered but how do you vote ? I would be deeply suspicious of people who say they would vote differently than what is good for them.

 

[Octopus]

Yes and you write a lot of it Clive.

Only to balance your mis-information!

 

[Diddy]

I am old time, but not an old time spark, had many careers over the years. I run a business which sparks is the largest part. I think the real question is : If you have personally benefitted from the policies of the last 5 years and suffered from the previous 10 (which is exactly my situation) then should I vote for what has proven to be best for me ? OR perhaps if I consider my neighbours or even my parents who have seen a real reduction due to QE and inflation whilst income from investments have reduced. I know I have benefited whilst "pensioners" have suffered but how do you vote ? I would be deeply suspicious of people who say they would vote differently than what is good for them.

The benefit of the "freedom" we have is we can vote for whoever we like and we don't need to justify it mate, I vote for what I feel is good for me and mine....if my neighbours and friends benefit from the same then great. It just so happens that I have always felt that socialist policies would in the grand scheme of things be better for me and mine....yes a 5p cut in income tax would be fabulous, but that means I may need to take out BUPA or some other insurance, so therefore my own take on the situation is I will happily pay 5p extra if it means I get top care if and when I need it without worrying about cost/small print ect. That is just me using NHS as an example BTW but may give an insight to my thinking behind my politics.

 

[Guest77]

Only to balance your mis-information!

If we didn't bicker it would be a boring forum wouldn't it lol, one thing we both agree on and that is nearly all politicians are ----ers.

 

[Octopus]

If we didn't bicker it would be a boring forum wouldn't it lol, one thing we both agree on and that is nearly all politicians are ----ers and are totally unfit for the jobs they have, as most of them have never had a real job.

edited that for you.

 

[Guest77]

hahaha

 

[Octopus]

hahaha

I've applied to Sky to be in the audiance of a session they are having with Cameroon and Silliband. The same question to both of them - what real life experience do you bring to Downing Street?

Bet I don't get on!

 

[Des 56]

A socialist cares about himself and his community,whether that be local or national,he will not seek to gain benefit if it meant depriving others of common services and opportunity or a safety net for when circumstances may dictate

A Conservative likes to pocket or gain individually as much as he can and retain that gain with an immoral lock and key

Caring institutions and true Conservative politics cannot exist side by side
Being working class,caring and a Conservative makes no sense whatsoever

Pick that which applies and vote accordingly

You can however,be working class,then be easily led into thinking that somehow it is not immoral political philosophy

 

[plugsandsparks]

A socialist cares about himself and his community,whether that be local or national,he will not seek to gain benefit if it meant depriving others of common services and opportunity or a safety net for when circumstances may dictate

A Conservative likes to pocket or gain individually as much as he can and retain that gain with an immoral lock and key

Caring institutions and true Conservative politics cannot exist side by side
Being working class,caring and a Conservative makes no sense whatsoever

Pick that which applies and vote accordingly

You can however,be working class,then be easily led into thinking that somehow it is not immoral political philosophy

That will be conservative then, the only ones who can manage to actually fund all these caring services.

 

[andyb]

Just felt the first effect of Osbourne's budget, I've had an hour cut.
Apparently any one on the top rate of tax gained an hour last night.