Priceless!!!!

[SRE]

"There is huge demand for this [Green Deal] but it's a different kind of demand",
Greg Barker, Minister of State for Energy and Climate Change, 9th Oct 2012

Have a look at this! Acamedian: Green Deal talk

 

[Noshocks]

I think it is now leaving the 'emperors new clothes' phase, where many have convinced themselves it is something to train, register and spend cash on. Time will tell whether it turns into another of the coalitions uturns or at best changes and evolves into something worthwhile in a few years.

 

[Ian-LS]

I still can't believe that the savings are based on SAP. What happens if somebody doesnt make the savings they expect due to the inaccuracy of SAP and their bills end up going up due to the savings being less than the cost of the system plus the interest @ 7%?

Why cant the savins be based on actual real consumption figures for each household not a typical savings figure for a semi detached house with 4 people in it

 

[TedM]

The savings have to be based on a theoretical baseline so that any external factor (e.g. a new baby) that could result in increased consumption doesn't affect the calculations.

 

[Earthstore]

Well, there you go I think that say's it all, politics....
And they expect us mortals to try and run a business with these guidelines so far.

I do wonder what is the real cost so far to the tax payer for all the time spent on the Green Deal by the Government and all the legal buffs, meetings etc.

The money would have been better spent installing PV (without FIT's)to all our schools so they could reduce their running costs.

Earthstore for PM..

 

[Worcester]

Love the George Orwell quote, his perception of the future has been scary! Especially so when you realise it was written in 1949.

 

[finchy]

SRE great blog, any person with half a brain will read that and think it's all smoke and mirrors. I can't believe it's got to this stage where people are training and investing money in basically hot air !! As said previously by other people, it's the vulnerable who will be talked into it and get ripped off (same happened to the free solar mob) The fact that most of our old stock of houses without architectural merit should be pulled down and rebuilt.

 

[Gavin A]

The savings have to be based on a theoretical baseline so that any external factor (e.g. a new baby) that could result in increased consumption doesn't affect the calculations.

I can't work out if you're serious or not.

Savings should always be based on the actual customers bills IMO, not the average expected energy consumption level for a building of that type in sheffield according to some forumla BRE came up with and seem to have convinced the government is actually a worthwhile method of estimating energy consumption.

Someone who's a thrifty energy user already will risk ending up severely out of pocket under green deal as their actual savings could well be 30% lower than the sap based estimates.

This'll end up on watchdog etc in a couple of years time as the latest in a depressingly long line of problems with renewables / energy saving systems that are simply being misapplied / miss sold even when companies are following the SAP based guidelines.

 

[TedM]

The Golden Rule is based on 'average' energy use, but low energy users can over-ride this as long as they sign an acceptance on that basis.

Also DECC have said:

It is important to ensure the assessment methodology is robust and fit for purpose. In order to ensure customers can be confident the Golden Rule principle will be met and to take account of how measures perform in situ, we will require Green Deal Providers to use figures which apply “in-use factors” to the savings estimates for qualifying Green Deal measures. The in-use factor is a percentage reduction applied to the savings. Their purpose is to recognise that the theoretical performance of energy efficiency measures and the actual performance is often different, and to enable the Green Deal finance to be adjusted accordingly.

http://www.decc.gov.uk/assets/decc/...n-deal-and-energy-company-obligation-cons.pdf

There is an updated DECC document on the application of in-use factors: http://www.decc.gov.uk/assets/decc/...green-deal-will-reflect-the-insitu-perfor.pdf

For low energy users this will have the effect of reducing the amount of GD finance available to meet the Golden Rule but, as stated, the GR can be over-ridden as long as the customer expressly agrees to this.

This also says:

13.The in-use factor is not intended to protect against occupants changing their behaviour, for example, comfort taking to achieve a warmer home. We recognise that such comfort taking can be a major reason for the apparent underperformance. Green Deal Advisors will provide advice to occupiers about the impact of their behaviour on making energy savings. They will also be offered advice during the Green Deal Occupancy Assessment on ways to save energy through simple changes in behaviour.

 

[Worcester]

Don't you just love the DoubleSpeak (George Orwell would be amazed at how true to life his science / social fiction fantasy has become)

They will also be offered advice during the Green Deal Occupancy Assessment on ways to save energy through simple changes in behaviour.

Is that a one liner in an instruction manual, a thirty second chat on how to use a heat pump to its best, or a proper evaluation of the changes they should make and how to use the new environmwent with a briefing for all users - the family, and with a clear advice manual for future owners?

And what qualification will these people have and who will deliver it? A whole new breed of GDOA's to train More money for the training companies, again.

 

[The Solar King]

Green Deal Advisors will provide advice to occupiers about the impact of their behaviour on making energy savings.

This may just be a reference to the Carbon Conversations programme, orginally developed by Cambridge Carbon Footprint and now rolled out both nationally and internationally.
See Six friendly, practical meetings to help you halve your carbon footprint | carbon conversations

This is not a government programme, (quite the opposite if fact) but a novel response to helping people reduce their carbon footprint.

However, it is not something a Green Deal Advisor would be capable of without training as a Carbon Conversations facilitator.

The irony of all this is Carbon Conversations could reduce emmissions by far more than the Green Deal for far less money.