PUB GARDEN ELECTROCUTION TRIAL

[marconi]

romford recorder pub electrician - بحث Google - https://www.google.com/search?q=romford+recorder+pub+electrician&rlz=1C1GCEA_enGB822GB822&oq=romford+recorder+pub+electrician&aqs=chrome..69i57j0i22i30j69i64.8373j0j15&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Pub owner 'drilled through cables' weeks before child electrocuted - https://www.romfordrecorder.co.uk/news/crime/pub-owner-drilled-through-cables-court-told-7071842

Many folk on the EF will know about the death of a young boy at a pub in Essex because he was electrocuted while playing in the pub's garden. It is front page news at the moment in our local rag.

The first link above takes you to a number of daily reports on the trial of the defendants.

The second is something many of you may not be aware of bearing in mind there are two defendants in the trial.

I am saying no more other than 'food for thought' and may the poor lad RIP Amen.

 

[Raptor0014]

Corrected that for you

Try telling some of my clients that.
An NIC contractor did a complete EICR on a church in just less than 2.5 hours, I was asked to look at the unsatisfactory EICR because of a couple of C2's ok the lack of RCD's was a C2 and needed attention but the other C2 was because of unswitched socket outlets they totally missed all the other faults and issues that filled an A4 sheet when I looked at it that were a mix of C2's and C3's and one that was a borderline C2 / C1
To be fair to that contractor the last proper PIR was done in 2004 the following EICR's in 2010, 2015 and 2020 were all inaccurate and missed many potential issues and all were done by NIC contractors

Shows no one is infallible. A bit like the guy that did my assessment. 30yrs experience and told me I’d used the wrong size cable on a 40A MCB. I’d used 6mm T&E. He said it was rated to 39A. I said I had checked the OSG and 7671 and must have misread as I thought it was 47A when clipped direct.

He said he would check and apologised when he did that he thought I’d used the wrong cable.

Would that mean he’s incompetent? No, it just means he had a error in recall. Which is why we have books to refer to. He was competent enough to check what he was saying when I disagreed.

Also had a local non-registered electrician try telling me that the earth cable from a MET to CU was fine at 10mm as that’s how it had always been done for years. When I said it should be 16mm and showed him the OSG (as he said it wasn’t) he thought that was just someone being too cautious with the regs. This prarticular guy has been one of the local sparks for 40yrs.

Doesn’t mean he can’t do the job to a good standard. But he is being incompetent by not checking his work is in accordance with current regulations.

The difference between competent and incompetent is not just the standard of work you do. It’s ensuring what you do is safe and complies with the current regulations (or the regulations when it was installed when doing a EICR etc).

 

[westward10]

What is wrong with a 10.0 earthing conductor.

 

[Raptor0014]

What is wrong with a 10.0 earthing conductor.

I didn’t say there was if it’s an existing installation. If it’s new then it should be 16mm, unless my instructor and the OSG are wrong?

Which is possible so if someone can correct me then I’m always happy to learn.

 

[westward10]

I didn’t say there was if it’s an existing installation. If it’s new then it should be 16mm, unless my instructor and the OSG are wrong?

Which is possible so if someone can correct me then I’m always happy to learn.

It is more a rule of thumb and saves having to calculate whether you can opt for a smaller csa even on a new installation. I don't have an On Site Guide but does it actually quote a Regulation.

 

[Raptor0014]

It is more a rule of thumb and saves having to calculate whether you can opt for a smaller csa even on a new installation. I don't have an On Site Guide but does it actually quote a Regulation.

In each type of meter installation it clearly shows 16mm to the CU and all supplementary to be 10mm.

On my course it was one of the things I had to check when doing the practical test that correct size earth bonding had been used.

 

[westward10]

It does but it is permitted to calculate the csa of your earthing conductor so a smaller size could be acceptable. Obviously if the conductor has to support the main protective bonding then it's csa must be adequate to support the bonding.
See Regulation 543.1.1

 

[Raptor0014]

It does but it is permitted to calculate the csa of your earthing conductor so a smaller size could be acceptable. Obviously if the conductor has to support the main protective bonding then it's csa must be adequate to support the bonding.
See Regulation 543.1.1

Was just reading that and wondered wether or not I’d been told wrong. It states above the table the DNO may require a larger size than is stated.

Like I said I am happy to be corrected and am only going off what I was taught, tested on and what the OSG says.

 

[westward10]

Was just reading that and wondered wether or not I’d been told wrong. It states above the table the DNO may require a larger size than is stated.

Like I said I am happy to be corrected and am only going off what I was taught, tested on and what the OSG says.

Be interesting if you installed a 10.0 earthing conductor when the OSG recommends 16.0 on an assessment and you can prove by calculation it is adequate. You haven't necessarily been told wrong as following the suggested sizes in the Table you can't really go wrong, I myself just follow the Table?

 

[Darkwood]

@Raptor0014

I get what you were saying but one sentence you put is why I replied, you find it difficult to understand why an electrician wouldn't be in a scheme.
I can understand an odd job man not being registered. But not an electrician

The schemes out there are just a way for people to set up companies and make money out of electricians, there is no legal requirement to be in one and you can certify your own work, it is no coincidence that these schemes were originally initiated by government and that many business, state bodies and insurance firms will require you employ an electrician who is part of one of these schemes.
There are however thousands of electricians that do not go into jobs where they require you to be a member of such bodies, at most my clients will ensure I have fully insurance and request copies for verification, many electricians who do domestic can choose to not be a member of a scheme, however due to part P and local councils it makes it difficult but not impossible to do so without be a member, again the full circle of siphoning money out of electricians or a tax if you want for a better word.

You actually can argue the case that you will sign off your own work, have full insurance like PL etc and will stand by your experience and good name to do so, I do not think although I will stand corrected that a company can demand you are part of one, they can only request, discrimination cases have been won on local councils in the past for stating a certain body only and not others or independent representation.

I have no issue with anyone wanting to use a scheme because it definitely has its advantages especially if you work in and around council and government buildings, it also makes any legal challenges and cases against you weaker if applied falsely, not been in a scheme to start with can mean a bigger and harder legal challenge if you are ever in that situe'.

I would happenly legally challenge any council that tried to force me to pay for some random jobsworth I could run rings around to satisfy their notification requirements, in fact I strongly believe that notification should be a must for all and free and local councils 'not trade bodies' would randomly inspect your work a few times a year, the powers to fine heavily and strike you off will be the deterrent for any dodgy cowboy. I would even happily pay a small fee to this set up and get rid of all these existing schemes that are now just treating us like cashcows.

Note here - randomly check your work is key to ridding cowboys, there are loads of firms in schemes that do a few decent jobs a year to take the inspectors to then bodge the rest with less than satisfactory standards... now that is why schemes are useless.

 

[Raptor0014]

Accepted I could have worded that better. Showing my lack of experience.

The few electricians round my way I’ve spoken to who aren’t is purely because they don’t want to pay to be assessed.

I fully agree a random inspection would be a better way. I loathe having to pay over £500 to prove I’m competent. Especially as I’ve been assessed on pretty much the same thing I was assessed on during the course.

But as I’m newly starting I thought it best to be in a scheme than not if I want to get work. Shows to any potential clients I’m not a cowboy with some YouTube quals.

 

[brianmoooore]

Resurrecting an old thread, but this case is the subject of "Defenders UK" on BBC1 at the moment.
Showing pics of the pub's electrics, worthy of starring in the Dodgy trade pictures thread on here.

 

[Midwest]

Resurrecting an old thread, but this case is the subject of "Defenders UK" on BBC1 at the moment.
Showing pics of the pub's electrics, worthy of starring in the Dodgy trade pictures thread on here.

Wouldn’t mind watching that, could you give details, so I can watch on iPlayer?

 

[brianmoooore]

Defenders UK is the full name of the series. 10.00 - 10.45 AM, BBC1 today.
It's one of those investigative programs that deals with about four or five different cases per episode, switching between them throughout the 45 minute program.

 

[snowhead]

Defenders UK - Series 5: Episode 6

Investigators are called in when a seven-year-old boy suffers a fatal electric shock.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[littlespark]

Still available on skyQ catch up section. Downloading it now. I’m sure it will still be on iPlayer as well.