Pulled a fuse today...

[southsea1201]

At a student let today and pulled the main fuse at the cutout. This is a block of flats built in the 1950's. Expected a 1361 or an 88 but this is what I found;



It appears to be a hollow piece of ali tube. I haven't investigated further as I have to go back....for all I know there maybe a plant room downstairs that contains the main fuse. But it seems curious because the meter is located inside the flat with the cutout. Anybody else seen this before?

I also found this:



Yep....tomorrow's movers and shakers are too idle to pick up a phone to the agents and complain about a dangerous situation...this plug is to the microwave in the kitchen

 

[nickblake]

Firstly why did you pull the main fuse , secondly think you need to contact the DNO well dangerous

 

[telectrix]

bet it's got a nice high kA rating.

 

[southsea1201]

I pulled the fuse because the tails were poorly terminated in the consumer unit. I have no qualms about doing this as I refuse to work live as per EAWR. This fuse holder was unsealed but i have wire and lead seals for when I pull fuses. I will off course be phoning the DNO today, after I have investigated if the flats have a room downstairs that contains fuses...it's a block containing about 20 flats.

 

[telectrix]

i'd guess that you'll find the main cut-out elsewhere with a main fuse serving all the flats. might even be a 3 phase supply.

 

[Darkwood]

Like to see you explain to DNO how you are aware of this, its illegal to withdraw this fuse unless you deem it a danger to property or life in not doing so!... so there is really no way you could be aware without explaining good reasoning and showing why and usually you have to action them through an emergency call too due to your need to ensure safety.

If only you could discreetly replace it with a fuse ....but that would also be illegal ... catch 22 :devil:

My main thought is the original kept blowing through overload so sounds like supply and demand may be incorrect... what size was the original to protect the DNO's cable from O/L....???

 

[nickblake]

Ah Not quite right Dark wood , you can pull a fuse so you can have safe isolation ,I was told this by a main man at Scottish power , i supose it could be classed as danger to life if he worked on it live

 

[Darkwood]

Scotland has a different approach if I remember not repeated in many other areas ... you can go on a 1 day course and have authority to withdraw and replace the cutout fuses or maybe just prove competence can't remeber how it works with the jocks ... Majority of the UK you cannot although Im sure ill be reminded where you can ...

PS any country that lets their tackle swing free in icy winds is tough enough in my mind to pull the main DNO without PPE

 

[Octopus]

Scotland has a different approach if I remember not repeated in many other areas ... you can go on a 1 day course and have authority to withdraw and replace the cutout fuses or maybe just prove competence can't remeber how it works with the jocks ... Majority of the UK you cannot although Im sure ill be reminded where you can ...

PS any country that lets their tackle swing free in icy winds is tough enough in my mind to pull the main DNO without PPE

The fuse needs to come out when the board needs changing........ no fool would mess with tails live would they - that would be plain stupid..... if the suppliers would provide us sparkies with a number to call to get isolators fitted for a reasonable fee and easily contact them that would be a different matter.

Obviously the last sentence is something the schemes SHOULD HAVE DONE YEARS AGO... but they haven't and I'm not holding my breath.

EDIT: And if they had a single email address to report "unsealed" fuses I'd notify them too.....

 

[southsea1201]

Like to see you explain to DNO how you are aware of this, its illegal to withdraw this fuse unless you deem it a danger to property or life in not doing so!... so there is really no way you could be aware without explaining good reasoning and showing why and usually you have to action them through an emergency call too due to your need to ensure safety.

If only you could discreetly replace it with a fuse ....but that would also be illegal ... catch 22 :devil:

My main thought is the original kept blowing through overload so sounds like supply and demand may be incorrect... what size was the original to protect the DNO's cable from O/L....???

I would say at least 50-60% of fuse holders in the old housing stock in Pompey are unsealed....and that's why I was surprised this more recent property was unsealed. Although the fact it had a fuseboard with an RCCB and 3871 type 1 breakers leads me to believe it was cut in the 1980's or thereabouts.
The demand of this particular flat is low because it has gas central heating and although it has an electric shower and cooker there is nothing excessive for a 3 bed flat.
I really don't think the DNO would waste time prosecuting me because it's obvious I was doing something to make the installation safer, but I'm happy to take my chances

 

[Darkwood]

I've had 2 run ins with DNO ..depends who you gat and whether they are in a good mood, I had to forward a letter with reasons for withdrawing the fuse and any evidence ...the partially burnt out tails was good enough but the fact is they were asking me to provide all this, new installation with smart meter also now log power downs and I know of one homeowner asked to explain why power was lost to their meter with no recorded power cut in the area... she had just had a new board fitted although I don't know the outcome it shows a changing trend because now they have time and dates where as before you just denied it was you who did it 'It were like that already cheif'!...

What I'm saying is don't get complacent about it, fines can be in the 1000's, even if seals are missing you cannot tamper with the cutout this includes withdrawing the fuse without good reason.... many discussions has been had on this ...yes everyone may have done it at some point but still keep your guard up on how you approach the DNO if you ever request them to intervene.

 

[Zebra Stripe]

At a student let today and pulled the main fuse at the cutout. This is a block of flats built in the 1950's. Expected a 1361 or an 88 but this is what I found;

View attachment 25005View attachment 25006

It appears to be a hollow piece of ali tube. I haven't investigated further as I have to go back....for all I know there maybe a plant room downstairs that contains the main fuse. But it seems curious because the meter is located inside the flat with the cutout. Anybody else seen this before?

I also found this:

View attachment 25007

Yep....tomorrow's movers and shakers are too idle to pick up a phone to the agents and complain about a dangerous situation...this plug is to the microwave in the kitchen

Was the fuse holder RED by any chance? These are usually found in service heads known as 'Red Links'. They are used as a form of isolation before a meter where the supply service fuse is not relocated or moved. I've fitted a few of these to allow the installation of meters in flats at the request of supply authority/meter installers etc.

 

[Andy78]

I just pulled a fuse 20 mins ago. No qualms about this one
Apparently is had been "loose" for 13 years, but never this "crackly"

 

[Darkwood]

The fuse needs to come out when the board needs changing........ no fool would mess with tails live would they - that would be plain stupid..... if the suppliers would provide us sparkies with a number to call to get isolators fitted for a reasonable fee and easily contact them that would be a different matter.

Obviously the last sentence is something the schemes SHOULD HAVE DONE YEARS AGO... but they haven't and I'm not holding my breath.

EDIT: And if they had a single email address to report "unsealed" fuses I'd notify them too.....

Couldn't agree more... like they do in Scotland .... but its just a profit game for them and frustration for us... Ive changed many with live tails ... its a matter of competence and PPE... Im no fool I hope either... they are single core its simple task to cut them live and fit into a Henley block..just don't get into the habit of chewing the insulation of the end of your cutters :hat:

 

[southsea1201]

Was the fuse holder RED by any chance? These are usually found in service heads known as 'Red Links'. They are used as a form of isolation before a meter where the supply service fuse is not relocated or moved. I've fitted a few of these to allow the installation of meters in flats at the request of supply authority/meter installers etc.

Well it was a more purple colour than red, and round here they are all black, so I guess it must be as you say Zebra....thanks for that info...but I will check it out anyway

 

[Knobhead]

So where’s the problem? A bog standard DNO sub main. As for explaining it, why?

 

[Eddiesparks]

Couldn't agree more... like they do in Scotland .... but its just a profit game for them and frustration for us... Ive changed many with live tails ... its a matter of competence and PPE... Im no fool I hope either... they are single core its simple task to cut them live and fit into a Henley block..just don't get into the habit of chewing the insulation of the end of your cutters :hat:

It 's a simple task but one that carries a lot more risk than pulling a fuse i reckon!

If there's henlys already in place then unscrewing the outgoing live and getting it out quick is acceptable i suppose but always far from ideal.

A belt from meter tails is going to be a lot worse than a tingle off some rcd protected lights.

 

[topquark]

Number to notify SSE (DNO for Southsea) for resealing -- 8000 483516. Temp seals available from local DNO stores in Portsmouth (Walton Road). Just ring nr to notify before removal and use a temp seal after. They'll arrange with home owner to reseal fuse/Meter as necessary.

They'll want to know that you have approp PPE and knowledge before issuing temp seals.

 

[infinity]

We used to install these when I worked for sse they are red links,nothing wrong with it, the fuse will be in the riefield unit in the riser
These are mounted in each flat by the meter as mentioned

 

[7029 dave]

Link fuse, an all above.^^^

 

[Eddiesparks]

So they are basically a single pole isolator?

 

[infinity]

Basically, yes

 

[southsea1201]

I'd like to thank all the contributors, having rarely ever having worked in flats I'd never seen this before....

 

[atm84]

I pulled the main fuse in an ex council house to find 40amp BS88. The client wanted an electric shower and storage heaters. I said the fuse wasn't big enough. The DB had been switched off for a few months and when switched back on with only two storage heaters on the fuse blew. I called the DNO, they came out, changed the 40 amp fuse for a 100 amp. He never bothered to seal it and gave me a few seals for myself.

 

[Rockingit]

I do wish people would learn about this properly. It's not illegal, per se. It's the DNO's equipment, and yes it's an offence under something somewhere to tamper with DNO equipment. If it came down to it in court, it would be the job of the DNO to argue why you should NOT have pulled the fuse - HSE would default to your defence - assuming that you are a competent person to start with as defined by EAWR. I have yet to meet a DNO lad who'd even mildly been bothered by a proper sparks making safe to work (although a couple of grumpy ones have commented that it's chargeable work!). It's only the office plebs that haven't got the first clue and no experience of being at the coal face. That being said, you do also need to know what you're doing and looking at - if one came apart or exploded in your hand whilst pulling.........