Qualifications to become a proper electrician?!

[Boner]

Guys, I'm currently a lowly domestic installer, but would like to get my qualifications to become a proper electrician!!!
PLEASE don't shoot me, but what courses/qualifications do I need to have to play with commercial/industrial stuff?
Cheers - Boner.

 

[johnboy6083]

a level 3 electical theory qualification, and an NVQ3. this will get you graded by the JIB, which 90% of employers ask for on commercial and industrial sites. Self employed, absolutely nothing, but you do have to be competent. this is very hard to prove without qualifications, and in the event of an accident or fire, you would be between a rock and a hard place!

 

[Boner]

mmmm - I am self employed, but was kind of under the assumption that I would need to have some city & guilds qualification to do inspection & testing on three phase stuff. Either way, does anyone know of any courses out there that would aid me to get a bit of knowledge etc?
Cheers - Boner.

 

[johnboy6083]

C&G 2330 for the theory, and 2391 for testing

 

[J@mes]

I'm glad someone else has realised that domestics is merely DIY at that commercial/ industrial is proper electricians work!!



















*ducks*

 

[Des 56]

I'm glad someone else has realised that domestics is merely DIY at that commercial/ industrial is proper electricians work!!


*ducks*

I stopped being a proper electrician in the last few years if thats the case
I'm winding down now but I like dawdling along with Diy electrics

and the lord said "In my house there are many mantions"

Define proper electrician please

 

[millwall ken]

I stopped being a proper electrician in the last few years if thats the case
I'm winding down now but I like dawdling along with Diy electrics

and the lord said "In my house there are many mantions"

Define proper electrician please

Des, I don't think that the fella mean't any offence. You are too long in the tooth mate to be insulted by an innocent comment. That was clearly stating the difference between a fully qualified commercial spark and a five day domestic course 'spark.'

 

[IQ Electrical]

I stopped being a proper electrician in the last few years if thats the case
I'm winding down now but I like dawdling along with Diy electrics

and the lord said "In my house there are many mantions"

Define proper electrician please

As you know Des, there is no concrete definition but our policy is a JIB approved grade before you get a sniff at an interview.

It doesn't always work out but combined with a brief test at interview, it helps us keep standards up and prove that we are using competent labour.

As always, there are exceptions to the rule!

 

[Sparky Ninja]

As you know Des, there is no concrete definition but our policy is a JIB approved grade before you get a sniff at an interview.

It doesn't always work out but combined with a brief test at interview, it helps us keep standards up and prove that we are using competent labour.

As always, there are exceptions to the rule!

This is interesting as I'm seeking employment and am not JIB graded.. wonder how many other potential employers wouldn't give me the light of day

 

[Des 56]

I'm not insulted ken
I just happened to be of an age when an electrician was the full works ( maybe a good thing,maybe not)

Domestic wiring was a very limited and relatively new add on for the spark, who was expected to do whatever was in front of him

In the last few years we have had a sectionalising of the electrical trade,with the domestic sector sliced away and taught as a seperate creature
I dont particularly like that change and dont see any reason why a spark should not be capable of performing in whatever sector he ends up with.


To describe a commercial spark as a proper spark takes away from the trade the all round competence that should be shown by all electricians wherever they perform

 

[IQ Electrical]

This is interesting as I'm seeking employment and am not JIB graded.. wonder how many other potential employers wouldn't give me the light of day

Might you not fit with my last sentence?

The problem is, it's an employers market, there are JIB approved electricians with 2391-10 readily available, that grade SHOULD prove competence, but like I said, there are exceptions both ways!

 

[Des 56]

I must agree with the JIB grading
It is a pity it didn't become the total bees knees all encompassing structure in the electrical industry

I have had experience on things that some of the younger sparks may not have even heard of maybe
I have worked in all sectors but dont have a card.( I have no need )
I do however believe it is the best system we have, and would expect an employer to be less than willing to consider someone without a card as someone who holds that card

 

[Sparky Ninja]

Might you not fit with my last sentence?

The problem is, it's an employers market, there are JIB approved electricians with 2391-10 readily available, that grade SHOULD prove competence, but like I said, there are exceptions both ways!

Yeah and I appreciate that. Unfortunately not all employers are on this forum

 

[Sparky Ninja]

I must agree with the JIB grading
It is a pity it didn't become the total bees knees all encompassing structure in the electrical industry

I have had experience on things that some of the younger sparks may not have even heard of maybe
I have worked in all sectors but dont have a card.( I have no need )
I do however believe it is the best system we have, and would expect an employer to be less than willing to consider someone without a card as someone who holds that card

I'm kinda between a rock and a hard place at the moment.
I'm teaching sessionally, which some like the appeal of.
However I don't have any recent referee's as I've been self employed for the past few years.
I'm still registered with the NICEIC as a QS, and have done quite a few consultations for them however I cannot use it for referral.

I'm being told that I am either over qualified or not JIB registered.

I've resorted to taking the TMIET off of my CV but I might be forced to take the teaching off there too..

 

[IQ Electrical]

I'm kinda between a rock and a hard place at the moment.
I'm teaching sessionally, which some like the appeal of.
However I don't have any recent referee's as I've been self employed for the past few years.
I'm still registered with the NICEIC as a QS, and have done quite a few consultations for them however I cannot use it for referral.

I'm being told that I am either over qualified or not JIB registered.

I've resorted to taking the TMIET off of my CV but I might be forced to take the teaching off there too..

And that's exactly the exception that I was referring to, TMIET, NICEIC QS, etc etc.

That's the flaw in the system but as an employer, you often have to make a policy that works for the vast majority of cases.

I'd bet you could blast through an interview with your CV and the offer of a brief trial period.

 

[millwall ken]

I'm kinda between a rock and a hard place at the moment.
I'm teaching sessionally, which some like the appeal of.
However I don't have any recent referee's as I've been self employed for the past few years.
I'm still registered with the NICEIC as a QS, and have done quite a few consultations for them however I cannot use it for referral.

I'm being told that I am either over qualified or not JIB registered.

I've resorted to taking the TMIET off of my CV but I might be forced to take the teaching off there too..

Damned if you do damned if you don't!!! Its pathetic that you should have to do that.

 

[Sparky Ninja]

I'd bet you could blast through an interview with your CV and the offer of a brief trial period.

Got to get to the interview stage first..


I've never been the kinda guy to sex up a CV or anything, but I'm starting to think that I might just have to remove some stuff..
According to the JIB, to avoid the NVQ 3 I need to provide a referable work history of the past 5 years. This however, doesn't exist as I've been on a self employed basis. Even my TMIET status doesn't cut the mustard.

The ironic thing is that I have been doing some NVQ 3 external verifying for the past couple of years..


...C'est La Vie!!

 

[james king]

well said

 

[IQ Electrical]

It seems unjust when you look at the facts on display!

What was your process for TMIET if you didn't go the gold card route?

 

[Sparky Ninja]

It seems unjust when you look at the facts on display!

What was your process for TMIET if you didn't go the gold card route?

Nomination via the NICEIC

 

[IQ Electrical]

Nomination via the NICEIC

I'd be impressed by that on a CV.

Like you mentioned, getting an interview will be the toughest part, getting the job should be a little easier once you're face to face.

 

[Des 56]

I can sympathise with widdler on this subject
I am an apprentice served mining spark who since the apprenticeship has done installations of various kinds for the last 35 years
I have qualifications relevant to that time,the symbolism of which wouldn't be understood nowadays
I have 35 years of installation experience since, in all sectors
I dont hold a JIb card but hold 2381 2391 etc
As I understand the proposed set up that is coming our way,the likes of myself and others who have no NVQ will be sidelined
Its a comfort to be in a position where I dont want or need employment

The criteria that is being used to estimate employment suitability
the likes of myself(age excepting) would be completely dismissed

That would be annoying if it were imperative to be employed

 

[sbrown2]

I would like to add that I too was a mining apprentice trained spark. Granted I started 23 years ago but mining qualifications are well respected around the world and within this country. The real question you need to ask what level of qualification you acheived C&G/TEC Level 1,2 or 3. Were you a class 1 spark (should have level 3 quals). If not will your current or previous employers help you with a reference. I appreciate you don't need the work but if you did want to apply for the JIB card there are routes to take and our qualifications are recognised.

Regarding the TMIET qualification as a means of gaining JIB status I've tried that and it doesn't cut the mustard. I am not sure regarding widdlers situation. JIB indicated, and I tend to agree now, that they wanted to see formal vocational qualifications related electrical engineering. This was my apprenticeship (I do not have a NVQ) linked to my academic qualifications plus 2391-10 and 17th edition. My professional qualifications are not specifically linked to the vocational skills required to be a electrician. They were signed and verifyed by managers, quality engineers and machinery managers. The JIB are interested in my practical skills and I am now coming to understand this.
In the next year or two most of the cartels will require these qualifications, meaning NVQ 3, and when I say this I mean in the domestic sectors also. That doesn't mean just the 2391 which I beleive is a level three qualification. Also those entering the domestic sector will need this level of qualification,
http://www.ecscard.org.uk/pdfs/Domestic_Electrician_discipline_and_schedule.pdf

I beleive this will become the norm. I then think at this point TMIET and JIB electrician may merge as both would have the neccesary qualifications relating to each other.

Regards

 

[tonys]

I'm glad someone else has realised that domestics is merely DIY at that commercial/ industrial is proper electricians work!!











*ducks*

I agree with you in one sense, but in the other sense, the name of the game is to earn money. I know of plenty of people including myself who have earned some really good money on price work on the decent homes project (domestic)

Don't get me wrong, the only skill needed is speed and you need to be able to put in the hours and of course you need all your own kit, van, chaser - hoover, tester, drills etc.

So from my personal point of view its about supply and demand and at this moment in time, there's an over supply of domestic sparks who never had the opportunity to get involved with commercial or industrial. So they are going to struggle for work, because British Gas are campaigning hard to corner the market FACT

Just seen the post man put my esc cert in the letter box, now I'm off to get a new passport photo to renew my Goldcard JIB Approved ticket and renew my holiday passport

 

[nick611]

yes qualifications are essential.but it.s experiance that really counts.i have 27 years in the game,domestic,commercial,industrial and i still learn something new every week.any one says they know it all is a liar or a fool