Question re Neon Testers

M

mayfair

A lot of sparks out there get the hump as soon as someone mentions Neon tester type mains Indicators. Q is Before there were volt stix and non contact testers etc is there any evidence of death /shocks etc among sparks from using the old fashioned mains tester? Also what did some of the old timers actually use. The subject seems to provoke such reaction amongst members there must be a lot of bad stories out there (lets hope not old wives tales) but if they are so bad why in the land of regs and more regs (UK)are they still being sold and even bundled into sets of very pro sets of screwdrivers? looking forward to your comments.
 
Dont think you read the Q .....just reacted as per norm on this forum.......sorry but think about it and the Q
 
I don't think i've ever owned one to be honest!! When starting at the companies training school we were all given Pukka voltage testers The square D solenoid one with the solenoid plunger indicating the voltage being measured against the bodies voltage markings. Later on these were replaced with Martindale neon indicating voltage testers. Still got both of them, ........Somewhere!! lol!!

The company banned the use of the screwdriver type neon tester, throughout all of it's factories, and strictly too... I guess that indoctrination has just stuck with me, over all these years!! haha!!
 
If you find it sometime would be nice to see a pic of some a the old gear cheers for that
Engineer54 said:
I don't think i've ever owned one to be honest!! When starting at the companies training school we were all given Pukka voltage testers The square D solenoid one with the solenoid plunger indicating the voltage being measured against the bodies voltage markings. Later on these were replaced with Martindale neon indicating voltage testers. Still got both of them, ........Somewhere!! lol!!

The company banned the use of the screwdriver type neon tester, throughout all of it's factories, and strictly too... I guess that indoctrination has just stuck with me, over all these years!! haha!!
Click to expand...
 
I have one that I got with an expensive looking set and it declares everything live. Its ace.
 
although i tend to agree on everyones opinion of them i have never heard of a single incident and apart from which they carry a kitemark so must be compliant and safe to use
 
Personally I don't like them, I think there's too much margin for error with them, all we really need is a breakdoown of the flimsy internal components there's scope to be directly connected. That said, I've never heard of an incident, other than the old 'there was this one guy' stories. As has been said, they have a kitemark and are still manufactured en masse, so they can't really be bad. My old man has always used one and laughs at me when I won't! I just can't bring myself to use something where you have to touch something conductive to make something light up!!

I do actually own dozens of them and use them as small terminal drivers - they fit 3-plate ceiling roses perfectly, and I always lose my tiny drivers. For a quid each, you can't fall off! Have been known to rip the guts out of them, though. Don't trust the things....
 
The problems with the neon test screwdrivers I've seen are;
1. They are not well made therefore not reliable.
2. A neon will illuminate at very low voltages as well as very high ones so even if the neon lights you never know if the voltage is a real supply or an induced 'surface' voltage.
3. A tester should be a dedicated device for testing only. If you use a neon tester as a screwdriver it's going to have the same effect as using your Fluke power analyzer as a hammer.
 
A while ago someone on here found an article on old skool methods of voltage detection. The approved indicator for 240v was a dry finger, while ELV was detected using a wet tongue. This method appears to have fallen out of favour in recent years.
I can see your point - the argument seems to be that you're putting your trust in the resistance in the neon screwdriver and if that fails you could be in for a shock, but to a certain degree you could say that about anything - nobody ever seems to query what would happen if double or reinforced insulation were to suddenly fail.

At college it was pointed out that while electricians seem to use screwdrivers insulated up to 1000v they're still not actually approved for live working, and in almost all cases live working is forbidden by the EAWR anyway.
 
NovusSparkus said:
A while ago someone on here found an article on old skool methods of voltage detection. The approved indicator for 240v was a dry finger, while ELV was detected using a wet tongue. This method appears to have fallen out of favour in recent years.
I can see your point - the argument seems to be that you're putting your trust in the resistance in the neon screwdriver and if that fails you could be in for a shock, but to a certain degree you could say that about anything - nobody ever seems to query what would happen if double or reinforced insulation were to suddenly fail.

At college it was pointed out that while electricians seem to use screwdrivers insulated up to 1000v they're still not actually approved for live working, and in almost all cases live working is forbidden by the EAWR anyway.
Click to expand...

Live working!!!! hahaha!!! i don't think some of the younger sparks here would believe, as to what some of the older Electricians have been asked to do on live installations, including myself!!!

Just one example that still stands out in my mind is drilling live 600A bus-bars for a new 3ph supply . In my case, although given the best equipment to carry out such work, i was still more than just a little apprehensive at the time ...haha!! Just 19ish at the time!!! As i said, i used a DI drill manufactured for live working, the drill bit was insulated past the required depth point (also acted as a stop) Had supervision and two safety guys present, with a blocks of wood in there hands as i remember haha!!!

Sort of induction test that all the trainee's went through in those times, but at the time i thought i'd pulled the wrong straw!!! Until the other trainee with me at the time, had to bolt the new supply cables onto the bars that is...haha!!!
 
Been there done that but the good thing about it was you knew it was LIVE.


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Had one when I served my time in the 1970s I got a belt when I touched a gas pipe when using it, it went flying across the room and have never used one since.

As others have said they should be made illegal.
 
While serving my apprenticeship one of the trades men got a belt off one. OK he had dropped it in a pool of s***ty water, fished it out and then used it.
They were banned from site! Anyone found with one would get a warning..
 
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So i wonder if someone drops a fluke 120 into a pool of water then uses it and gets a belt, that will be Fluke testers banned
Tony said:
While serving my apprenticeship one of the trades men got a belt off one. OK he had dropped it in a pool of ****ty water, fished it out and then used it.
They were banned from site! Anyone found with one would get a warning..
Click to expand...
 
mayfair, you beat me to it. i was going to say MFT.dropped in a bucket of sewer water
 
When I was an apprentice it was a neon or ordinary bayonet cap lamp and holder with a couple of leads on it,that was in the 1960s.The neons seemed better made back then,I think the modern ones are rubbish.Never any problems with them but wouldn't use one now as they don't give a reliable indication compared to a proper tester and proving unit.
 
Yep I did jump in as soon as I saw "neon testers", knee jerk reaction maybe but when you have had a wallop like I did many years ago I think it was understandable, but sorry I didn;'t read your question completely..........still ban them though
 
This takes me back to 1980 when I stated my time in black and white !. My Dad bought me an electricians toolkit it contained a neon tester. I was told by my journeyman to put this in the bin as they would light on a neutral and were not reliable or to be trusted. I removed the resistor and kept it as a terminal driver. As the site neared compleation and became live I was gifted a martindale tester which was brill!. My tool kit was aquired by an unsavery git comonley known as a theiving person. I replaced this with the same toolkit but hadent removed the resistor yet, my journeyman borowed this to swap pass wires as he Knew I had removed the resistor and would be safe to do it live as he wouldent be earthed I can still remember the scream and then the kick up the behind for not telling him it was new and still had all its gubbins inside. To this day wheniver I come across a neon tester in a tool kit I imeadiatly remove the gubbins from the inside and have never been brave enough to try one on a live terminal.
 
Should be thrown away as soon as possible. Sparks1234 is right totally right, very unreliable one good earth and you'll produce better colours than the crap neon ever will.
 
Amp David said:
Isn't most peoples concerns the fact that they dont give an accurate indication of if a circuit is live or dead?
Click to expand...

That sums it up...they dont. Anyone who is going to stick their hands on the bits that bite based on the say so of a neon frankly deserves a handful of sparks.......try using one in sunlight and see if you can tell if it is lit or not.
I havent used one in twenty years.
 
I think like all sparks I'm totally against them. Most of us here understand what the limitations of these things are, but they are not aimed at our market they are aimed at the DIY end, and they are sold mainly as votalge testers, though the product name is voltage indicator.

The trouble with them is it encourages the not so savvy DIY'er to undo something and test to see if it is live, and if it is then you have the situation of someone poking about into something he doesn't understand, and using himself to make a circuit, they are horrendously unsafe in this type of situation, but there again so is a car if your not trained to drive.

There was a post on here a while back where someone was testing to see if his meter was live by using a Neon, it makes me shudder to think of someone poking about at a meter armed with just a neon screwdriver.
 
mayfair said:
Someone from the wirral being an arse ......so whats fresh OUCH my mrs is from elesmere port and seen this lol
Click to expand...
best thing ever came out of the wirral is the mersey tunnel
 
Surely only builders use neon screwdrivers?






Ive got a volt-stick though......
 
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Ever since I started out I've been told never to use them. Because if the scare tactics and the rumours that I've been told I still don't use one, but there's no stories popping up on this thread about people getting a shock.
 
I personally have never had a shock of one as I have never used one, although I saw a guy using one who decided he needed a better earth path so he touched his other finger onto the steel trunking. All I can say is it wasn't to long before he dropped said neon screwdriver.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk.
 
mayfair said:
A lot of sparks out there get the hump as soon as someone mentions Neon tester type mains Indicators. Q is Before there were volt stix and non contact testers etc is there any evidence of death /shocks etc among sparks from using the old fashioned mains tester? Also what did some of the old timers actually use. The subject seems to provoke such reaction amongst members there must be a lot of bad stories out there (lets hope not old wives tales) but if they are so bad why in the land of regs and more regs (UK)are they still being sold and even bundled into sets of very pro sets of screwdrivers? looking forward to your comments.
Click to expand...

I have heard that if you go back a really long time that it was not unusual for the very first sparks to carry talcum powder. This was put on there finger which dried the skin sufficiently to increase resistance so that if you had to test if a conductor was live you just got a tingle not a belt! Can't vouch for how widespread it was - might date back to the days when the regs were printed on just 2 pages!
 
pushrod said:
I have heard that if you go back a really long time that it was not unusual for the very first sparks to carry talcum powder. This was put on there finger which dried the skin sufficiently to increase resistance so that if you had to test if a conductor was live you just got a tingle not a belt! Can't vouch for how widespread it was - might date back to the days when the regs were printed on just 2 pages!
Click to expand...

And men were men.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk.
 
there are old electricians and there are bold electricians, but there ain't no old, bold electricians

and can i pleeeeeeesa have a couple of likes here just to make mt century
 
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Question re Neon Testers
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