Quoting - how do you all do it?

[dansk]

Im having a rant this morning - im sick to death of spending 2+ hours on putting a quote together, using PV-Sol, writing the letter, desiging the system, checking this, checking that to send it out and follow it up and be ansewerd with some sort of excuse - customers have absolutly no idea how long it takes to put a comprehensive quote together -

Does anyone else just send an example cost with a FiT breakdown out first? then follow up? and if the prospective client is keen go out and do a full survey? because at the moment, if i get a request to quote i go out to site, run through it all (spending roughley an hour) check the electrics, roof blah blah, then spend a couple of hours designing a system, typeing it up and posting out - am i doing something wrong?

 

[FIT-PV]

I'm afraid we all go through the same situation.

It does get annoying, especially when you do site visits, prepare a full quote which involves quite a bit of time and paperwork.

A lot of people will call a minimum of 3 to 4 companies to give a quote then decide. This can take up to a month or two before they reach a decision.

 

[dansk]

oh well, at least i may still be in with a chance - Glad im not on my own, im just fed up today, its a lot of paperwork and when the customer hasnt no idea of the time and effort - i feel like charging for my quotes, but i wont get anywork then will i!!

Cheers

 

[langstroth2]

I know this might be of little consolation, but as a (potential) solar PV customer I can say that I will make a decision based on a combination of price, equipment offered and the fact I met the supplier on a site visit - no matter how objective I try and be, the adage that people buy from people is very true I think - particularly for such big ticket items where there's such "choice" of spec available. I need to feel a level of trust in the supplier, however subjective that is...

The companies that did a local site visit will be the only ones' making a shortlist. Not all did a complete survey though - the local installers tended to express knowledge of the building types in an area and didn't actually go in the loft for example, but will do a survey if I express desire to proceed. Again it came to trust as to whether I think this is an excuse to bump up the cost later, or a desire to save some time which I can well understand (and based on meeting the individuals, I'm tend to the latter view).

 

[SolarCity]

It takes me 4 hours plus to put a quote together. What infuriates me is when a customer ignores my follow up emails. My quotes are free and of course without obligation but to act the way they do is disgusting and we could do with a Which? report into ignorant and rude customers.

 

[langstroth2]

It takes me 4 hours plus to put a quote together. What infuriates me is when a customer ignores my follow up emails. My quotes are free and of course without obligation but to act the way they do is disgusting and we could do with a Which? report into ignorant and rude customers.

That I agree is just plain rude.

 

[FIT-PV]

I agree totally. Just followed up a customer today to whom I gave a quote to about a month ago. I was referred from a friend of his, and I get no reply to emails and he does not answer my phone calls.

I would much prefer the customer be straight forward and say they have either gone with someone else or they are not going for it at this moment in time. At least I can then log the call as closed.

Before I gave the quote, he would answer emails and phone calls straight away.... Frustrating customers!

 

[dansk]

Thanks - ive had two in as many days comeing back with excuse's - i would love it if a potential customer just phoned and said "would you mind coming round to give me a quick idea how much it would cost to install a solar system, im only curious" at least then you know there not mucking you about and i would gladly do it.

I dont charge for quotes either and langstroth2 i agree, people buy from people mainly and yes its a large investment.

Im a bit happier now, but god i was stressed this morning about it.

 

[dansk]

I would much prefer the customer be straight forward and say they have either gone with someone else or they are not going for it at this moment in time. At least I can then log the call as closed.

Before I gave the quote, he would answer emails and phone calls straight away.... Frustrating customers!

I totaly agree - its mad isnt it - nice as pie before hand, ignore you like the plague afterwards!

Im doing quote as well as reading this, and i know already she aint going to go with me, its just a pricing excersise.

 

[SRE]

Im doing quote as well as reading this, and i know already she aint going to go with me, its just a pricing excersise.

Don't do a full quote, send a price indication and offer a full, formal quote if they decide they are serious. We just haven't got the time to do every survey unless we know the work is very likely to go ahead. I'll spend as long as they like talking to them on the phone and give lots of options and ball park figures which are usually fairly accurate.

It takes me between 2 and 4 hours to do my quotes, I get a bit carried away with trying to give the customer the best option with PVSOL and I'm not doing that unless I'm fairly certain they are going to go ahead at least with someone if not me. After that we just have to sell ourselves when we visit the customer.

 

[northernsun]

nice thread!! Yup, its bloody infuriating, especially when you find out that after your hard work trying to build a great system - this is how I try to be better than the big boys and their "knowledgeable" salesmen, you find out that despite going the extra yard, and trying to be be competetive on price they still go for cheapest quote with whatever the other installer has got a good deal on. poxy modules, poxy inverter but £500 less than your quote which would give them the best payback!
On the flip side it does feel good when you get the job and the reason the client gives is because you went that extra yard, designed the system, told them everything honestly and generally "earned" the job.


I had a great customer (well, potential) customer who i conversed with over a few weeks, designed him a great system for what was a difficult job but was unlucky enough to run up against another company who did the same but were a bit cheaper. The customer said that this was the only thing between us and the other quotes from larger companies were pathetic in terms of info and knowledge. Although we didnt get the job, he wrote to us thanking us for our diligence and saying he would heartily recommend us to his friends. So, no job, but still got a bit of recognition for the work and a polite thank you for our time- now thats how things should be!

 

[dansk]

I had a great customer (well, potential) customer who i conversed with over a few weeks, designed him a great system for what was a difficult job but was unlucky enough to run up against another company who did the same but were a bit cheaper. The customer said that this was the only thing between us and the other quotes from larger companies were pathetic in terms of info and knowledge. Although we didnt get the job, he wrote to us thanking us for our diligence and saying he would heartily recommend us to his friends. So, no job, but still got a bit of recognition for the work and a polite thank you for our time- now thats how things should be!

I think thats an insult mate - cheeky git, thanks for all your design work, ive now gone to someone else with the info, told em what i want and got it cheaper all thanks to you!!

Customers eh?

At least they said thanks, and yes it nice to win a job when its down to your good honest customer service.

The line i like from customers is "xyb company have quoted on "such and such panels" why are yours better? and they can get 25 panels on the roof, your stood there thinking OMG if only they knew..........

 

[Dale200bhp]

I have lost loads of Jobs to pottential good customers to the bigger pushy salesman type companys. I Just lost a job last week because I ask for 25% deposit, I thought this was normal?

I looked at a job three months ago where the roof was all up and down and sagging pantile roof built in the 1800,s facing north east east east, shaded by the main house and the church just next door, I told the customer that I wouldnt even entertain installing panels on that old roof plus the considerable amount of shade, He was very disapointed, but I dont want any come back in a few years when the yeild is low!
Guess what drove past the other day and some big company were just banging them on!

I dont think the MCS scheme is really working! Just like Part P, making it hard work for people who want to do it right.

 

[1shortcircuit]

I know this might be of little consolation, but as a (potential) solar PV customer I can say that I will make a decision based on a combination of price, equipment offered and the fact I met the supplier on a site visit - no matter how objective I try and be, the adage that people buy from people is very true I think - particularly for such big ticket items where there's such "choice" of spec available. I need to feel a level of trust in the supplier, however subjective that is...

The companies that did a local site visit will be the only ones' making a shortlist. Not all did a complete survey though - the local installers tended to express knowledge of the building types in an area and didn't actually go in the loft for example, but will do a survey if I express desire to proceed. Again it came to trust as to whether I think this is an excuse to bump up the cost later, or a desire to save some time which I can well understand (and based on meeting the individuals, I'm tend to the latter view).

I can understand that you guys get frustrated but somehow you need to stay positive knowing there are customers like above about.

It is a large investment and you need to sell yourself each and every time.

Easy to say I know but think of it as a numbers game, If you quote enough idiots/time-wasters IT WILL pay you back.

Keep your head up and stay positive :thumbsup

 

[pcollins]

We do a site survey for all installs, and like the everybody else usually spend a good 2 hours on the quotes afterwards. It is a nightmare, particularly when you're doing evening visits as you're busy with installs etc (not that I'd ever complain about being on an install!)

We do, where we can, give customers an approximate install cost during the site visit when we've seen what the job entails and we also give them a SAP calc. We make it clear that this is rough and we'll follow up with a written quote. It helps to see customers reaction, gives an idea of how serious they may be. We don't apply any pressure, or discount it if they then turn around and say "I've been offered this for £--- by somebody else"

We have been given at least one job on that, equally we've been spared the time of designing and quoting by a customer who decided it wasn't worth his while. So I think it works for us.

What really gets my goat is when we go to a job where the person before us has said they'll get 18 panels on a roof that will not leave any room for clearances either side, may even overhang and certainly isn't within regs (plus how on earth do you get a rail in that close to a ridge!) It really narks me, but all we can do is submit a quote for a smaller array and point out that it is within regs etc.

 

[SRE]

I'm going for the record - 6 hrs + 2hours on site - tricky roof! Got the job though ..

 

[dansk]

nice one - at least you got the job! 6hours - thats good going.

 

[grandfortune]

can i ask why it takes so long, 4hrs?. going to look at my first one next week,lol i assume ill find out, mind you have no software yet i thought that the inverter software does everything for you?

thanks
grand

 

[SRE]

I suppose it depends on your approach to your customer. If you stick with one panel and one inverter option then it would be quite a lot quicker. We try to give 3 different options and a lot of our roofs are quite tricky. By the time you've spent half an hour costing accurately, 1/2 an hour on PVSOL for an easy job, then another half an hour working out the return over 25 years and putting it on the right paperwork, the doing 3 quotes takes a while. Then your letter to your customer explaining what happens and printing off al the documentation, panel info etc and posting it or pdf'ing it and emailing it, followed by making sure it's all filed in a place you can find it. In between all of that you'll be double checking the latest offers and prices to make sure you're doing the best deal you can and checking availability of roofers, scaffolders etc - then you can sit back an put your feet up. It usually takes me between 2 - 3 hours. 6 was a lot but I probably went through a dozen options to see which was going to be the best for the customer. They appreciated it though - and we're known locally for going the extra mile - we don't advertise and are booked up til October.

 

[grandfortune]

ah i see, i was thinking down the line of one panel and one inverter i assumed that what was generally good on one roof would be good on any other or am i wrong in thinking that way. if a roof is of a more angle than another or is SW instead of S does it make a difference in what inverter or panel u use?

 

[SRE]

That works for some people but when you're in a crowded market place you need to think carefully about what will make you stand out. Customers can go to Tesco, M&S or British Gas for a standard install and a lot of the time they will be cheaper but if you're prepared to listen to your customer and understand what they want it makes you stand out. Some of our customers want the most power available on the smallest roofs - Sanyo, some want environmental credentials, some want German engineering, some couldn't care less and just want the cheapest reputable company with the best yield.

Don't be disheartended if you don't get the first few jobs - it takes a while to get the hang of listening to the customer and getting the balance right between not selling at all and a nudge in the right direction.

 

[Ramjam]

This is my procedure....

Take enquiry from wherever, log in customer register spreadsheet - allocate unique number
Office staff - Book site survey - google calendar, synchronises with pretty much every smartphone!
Office staff - Prepare indicative quote, panel literature and notes for surveyor (customer is interested in or concerned about...)
Surveyor - Take site survey form and indicative quotes visit customer
In and out in less than 1.5 hours as per REAL rules leave them with indicative quote for 3 different sized systems having explained how this will differ from their formal quote)
Pass completed survey form back to Office staff who prepare formal quotation in 5minutes (no exaggeration and that includes putting it in the envelope and sticking on the stamp)

Then I forget about it - I don't chase ever and I get around 1 in 6 has been as high as 1 in 4 and as low as 1 in 10 but I'm not pushy and I'm fully booked.

Only problem is now I've got between 4 and 6 site surveys to do every day and with running the company and visiting the boys on site and delivering MCS certificates to paid up customers I don't get time to eat let alone rest. I'm training one of the boys to do site surveys now, I've just got to employ someone to take his place o the roof!

I made a spreadsheet to do this which I sell, you can download a copy and play FOC if you fancy it then I ask for £150 and I send you a copy with your company details embedded, you can change pretty much everything if you want to make it suit you.

www.silverstonesolar.co.uk/SS9999-ProjectDetailsV2-CustomerName.xls

Don't mean to be profiting from this thread but if you're struggling it may well be just the help you need, I've sold lots of copies and the people who've bought have been very pleased.

 

[SRE]

I suppose it's all swings and roundabouts - like many on the Forum we're a 2 man band - one in the office doing everything apart from installing - stock, surveys, design, handovers, finance, quotes, sourcing, etc etc but we convert 2 out of 3 jobs, at most it's 2 out of 4 but that's not very often, so although we spend more time on doing surveys we spend less time visiting properties.

Sounds like you've got a good system going but there's a lot without any staff support. Out of interest how do you manage to get Google earth to measure the ridge to gutter? I've never yet managed to get an accurate reading from it - I can get the length no problem but the ridge always catches me out and that makes it almost impossible to quote on the day.

 

[SolarCity]

It takes me around about an hour to speak to a customer and survey the site (if it's straightforward of course). It then takes me anything between 2-8 hours to do a quote, but normally around 4 hours. I model everything in 3D and factor all shading factors into it. I generally quote for 3 different systems and produce a quotation which is around 15 pages long before we add data sheets.

We have a very high conversion rate but really struggle for time.

 

[Ramjam]

Roof plane calculations...

Measure the width of gable end of a building, divide the answer by 2 and multiply it by the roof plane factor for the pitch of the roof, hey presto you now know the roof plane (distance eaves to ridges. Remember to measure the out to the sofits to get the full roof plane.

This spreadsheet is free of charge, the survey and quotation spreadsheet costs £150 plus VAT.

Roof plane factor

http://www.silverstonesolar.co.uk/Si...Calculator.xls

Survey and quotation

http://www.silverstonesolar.co.uk/SS9999-ProjectDetailsV2-CustomerName.xls

Cheers
William

 

[SRE]

Sorry William, I didn't mean I couldn't work out the angle or ridge measurements when I was on site - what I was asking was how you could do that on Google Earth and convert it into quotes to take with you. When I measure the ridge to the gutter and compare it to an actual measurement it's usually miles out because of the pitch. As far as I can see you can't measure the gable to get an idea of the ridge to eaves from Google Earth. On site isn't a problem but I'd really like to have something prepared to go on site with but can't ever manage it.

 

[northernsun]

I suppose the only way of getting a rough estimate from google earth is to use an estimate of the pitch and then use trigonometry to work out the length ridge to eaves. You could get the "flat" measurement from the ridge to eaves (which is the bottom of the right angled triangle) Then the width of the roof and get a guess at the area from that.

theres a quick trig calculator here: Right Triangle Trig Calculator

guess (or use an average) the angle x and fill in side b with the google earth measurement.

you might even get lucky with a streetview of the pitch!

rough as buggery but a rough preparation guess!

 

[PV Martin]

Template, template, template...... i know that you have to do the site visits and sell yourself initially to the customer but spend some time now (you will save it in heaps later) design your templates on word etc and then you only need to change the specifics for the job in question. i can rattle out a quotation in under 1 hr and that includes a 3D sketch on how the system would look on their house (they love that bit), and a full return on investment sheet including expected inflation and payback period.

i know it sounds flippant because i have already set up my templates but really it is the only way, i have attached some samples.

Good luck

 

[grandfortune]

nice PV martin, but most of us wouldnt know where to start doing that, it looks great, could i contact someone to do it for me?

thanks
grand

 

[ez2own]

Template, template, template...... i know that you have to do the site visits and sell yourself initially to the customer but spend some time now (you will save it in heaps later) design your templates on word etc and then you only need to change the specifics for the job in question. i can rattle out a quotation in under 1 hr and that includes a 3D sketch on how the system would look on their house (they love that bit), and a full return on investment sheet including expected inflation and payback period.

i know it sounds flippant because i have already set up my templates but really it is the only way, i have attached some samples.

Good luck

Looks awesome , great presentation , which pv software do you use pv sol expert ???

 

[PV Martin]

hi ez2own.

the only PV software i use is sunny design for the system figures the rest is either home made spread sheets, a word template for detailed system explanations and costings (as well as the MCS template for costings) and a 3d drawing package for visual impact, its great how much detail you can show with a 3d image, i have attached one where i got bored the weekend, the customer was thrilled. i suppose its a bit Tesco, but every little helps.resent:

 

[SolarCity]

You must be on site a long time taking measurements!

 

[PV Martin]

Biggssolar, the only thing that is truly to scale is the roof/chimneys/other roof detail and the property foot print, the rest is a visual representation from photographs. the REAL code says no more than 2 hours at a property, i am never there for more than 1, no coffee just get on and do the job in hand make sure the customer is happy and then off, time is money......simples!!

 

[SolarCity]

Looks great. How long does it take you to do and what package do you use? We supply a 3D image taken from PV Sol Expert and a photo using Photo Plan. Time consuming stuff.

 

[MorganPVI]

What drawing package is that Martin?

 

[PV Martin]

well its a trade secret and very expensive!!! OK its a free download called Google sketch up, the best thing about it is that hundreds of people have already drawn such things as solar panels,inverters etc so you can just import them from the library.... simples.

you will need to play and experement with it for a bit but it is very easy to use once you get the hang of it.

Have funresents2:

 

[northernsun]

awwww bloody hell martin man!!!!! You let the cat out the bag on that one.

I thought I was the only one using it till I saw this thread. Its a great programme when you get the hang of it innit?
If anyone does have ago I recommend having a look at the tutorials to learn how to use it- from the same place you download it.
Its fairly intuitive and easy to use when you know how but annoying when you dont!

 

[PV Martin]

sorry northen sun,

but hopefully it will help people in their quest and although i thought about keeping it quiet this forum has been so helpful to me sometimes you have to give something back. and you are right about the tutorials and like i said earlier in this thread if you spend a bit of time up front it saves you heaps later.

Cheers

 

[langstroth2]

...google tool found here Google SketchUp for those that like a quick link to check out.

My local theatre group use it for mocking up stage designs, it's not bad

 

[PV Martin]

come on then northen sun show us one of your mockups. would just like to see if mine are up to scratch. :cool3: lol