Radial For Fridge Freezer

[mattcos1972]

Hi all.
I am just about to change a CU at my mum's house. Apart from the fact that there is no bonding to any pipework, which I will rectify when I fit the CU, the f/freezer is currently on a radial fed by 2 core RUBBER sheathed 1.5mm cable. There is no cpc to speak of!! This cable also goes on to supply a FCU fused to 3A to supply over cupboard lighting in the unit above the fridge.

I was thinking of running in a new radial just to feed fridge and the lighting, but keeping it on the non RCD side of the board. Can this be done or do I need to RCD protect the lighting (so thereby get its power source from elsewhere).

Also with a non RCD protected radial for the Fridge, does the cable have to be run in earthed steel conduit or will plastic suffice?

Again this is for NICEIC assessment so want it to be perfect (as always )

Cheers all

Matt

 

[Mr Mark Sparks]

as long as you lable the fridge socket for specific use it need not have an rcd/rcbo the additional cable to the lights will not rcd/rcbo if you keep the cable surface ie mini trunking

when you say non rcd side what sort of cu are you going to fit

 

[mattcos1972]

as long as you lable the fridge socket for specific use it need not have an rcd/rcbo the additional cable to the lights will not rcd/rcbo if you keep the cable surface ie mini trunking

when you say non rcd side what sort of cu are you going to fit

Gonna use a 10 way Wylex High Integrity board (2 circuits unprotected and 4 + 4 protected).
There is also a circuit going out to the garage which will go nicely in second unprotected slot and a garage CU with RCD installed, as there isn't currently one in there. Nor is there any CPC but thats a completely different story!!

Regarding the fridge radial; I will run it all the way to the lighting FCU inside conduit after that the cables are surface mounted anyway so problem solved! yay!

Cheers for the reply chap.

Matt

 

[flukey]

Regarding the fridge radial; I will run it all the way to the lighting FCU inside conduit after that the cables are surface mounted anyway so problem solved! yay!

Matt

i take it the conduit to lighting fcu is surface mounted and not buried in the wall as well

 

[Des 56]

The no Rcd reg is for "one item of current using equipment"
I dont think you are permitted to run a lighting spur off this circuit

 

[mattcos1972]

The no Rcd reg is for "one item of current using equipment"
I dont think you are permitted to run a lighting spur off this circuit

Ah! Interesting point Des!
But, the way I understand it (which is probably wrong ) is that if the entire circuit is surface mounted in conduit, Zs is fine and its not servicing a bathroom, then no RCD would be req'd regardless of the amount of points it services. (OSG P21-22)

 

[eddielarge]

Ah! Interesting point Des!
But, the way I understand it (which is probably wrong ) is that if the entire circuit is surface mounted in conduit, Zs is fine and its not servicing a bathroom, then no RCD would be req'd regardless of the amount of points it services. (OSG P21-22)

I would run a seperate radial for the fridge and then put it on the non rcd side but then install an rcbo,, i would do this as if there is any faults on any other circuit then the fridge stays on , also you can chase the cable in the wall.

 

[lewlec]

I would run a seperate radial for the fridge and then put it on the non rcd side but then install an rcbo,, i would do this as if there is any faults on any other circuit then the fridge stays on , also you can chase the cable in the wall.

hi

the only problem with that is if a fault occurs on the fridge it will take out the rcbo and maybe by the time you discover it all your food has had it. just a thought..

regards
gary

 

[chris gray]

i wouldnt use an rcbo on the fridge circuit. if your going to do that you may as well put it on the kitchen ring.
thats the point of putting it on its own designated circuit so that you dont have an inline rcd/rcbo due to nuisance tripping

 

[Mr Mark Sparks]

i wouldnt use an rcbo on the fridge circuit. if your going to do that you may as well put it on the kitchen ring.
thats the point of putting it on its own designated circuit so that you dont have an inline rcd/rcbo due to nuisance tripping

i agree thats the very reason we are alowed to have a non rcd point for the fridge/freezer

 

[eddielarge]

i wouldnt use an rcbo on the fridge circuit. if your going to do that you may as well put it on the kitchen ring.
thats the point of putting it on its own designated circuit so that you dont have an inline rcd/rcbo due to nuisance tripping

If you put it on the kitchen ring then any appliance that gets a fault with it will then effect fridge, with my way its only the fridge itself will cause it to trip.

therefore if the dishwasher becomes faulty and trips the circuit then the fridge is not effected.

your method will also effect fridge if dishwasher fails

 

[eddielarge]

i agree thats the very reason we are alowed to have a non rcd point for the fridge/freezer

where have you read that you can have a non rcd point on a fridge,, new one to me ,

If its run surface then im with you . but if its buried in wall then it needs an rcd.

 

[eddielarge]

hi

the only problem with that is if a fault occurs on the fridge it will take out the rcbo and maybe by the time you discover it all your food has had it. just a thought..

regards
gary

if a fault occurs on any of the following ways wont it trip the fridge.....

if a fault occurs on one of your appliances while your on holiday then you will still have a fridge full of food. if its on kitchen ring then you loose the fridge as well.

I personally dont do seperate radials for fridges but there are benifits,,

 

[Mr Mark Sparks]

where have you read that you can have a non rcd point on a fridge,, new one to me ,

If its run surface then im with you . but if its buried in wall then it needs an rcd.

no i agree only not on rcd if surface and labled

 

[mattcos1972]

Hi all.
Cheers for all the interest chaps.

I have decided to surface mount the circuit as the CU backs onto the kitchen wall where the FF is situated, and the conduit will actually run behind the FF all the way anyway (so no one will be any the wiser). The reason for this is there is a lighting spur taken off the existing circuit and its just easier to hook it up to the new surface mounted circuit rather than try to find the D/Stairs ring (no separate kitchen ring) under the tiled floor.

I will label the socket as non rcd protected and if its used for anything else at a later stage (which is doubtful) then an RCBO can always be fitted in the CU.

Thanks again everyone.

Matt

 

[SirKit Breaker]

This is what i do.

Put the fridge on the kitchen ring.
When you install new CU put a twin switched socket at the side of it or below or above, 2.5mm T&E straight into 16a MCB on non RCD part of board, no exposed cable.
At least then the circuit is compliant and customer has a get out of jail card, they just need etxn lead.

Most people go in their fridges daily and not having power for this amount of time i no problem.
If they come home after 2 weeks holiday to defrosted fridge and scrap food then this is why they should have insurance.

Regards..........Howard

 

[lewlec]

if a fault occurs on any of the following ways wont it trip the fridge.....

if a fault occurs on one of your appliances while your on holiday then you will still have a fridge full of food. if its on kitchen ring then you loose the fridge as well.

I personally dont do seperate radials for fridges but there are benifits,,

i was thinking you have more chance of realising that the trip has gone if its on with other appliances, i had a customer the other day with the freezer citcuit on its own rcbo and cos it was in the garage no one noticed until it was too late....probably couple of hundred quids worth lost . best way to get around the holiday thing is to stay at home!!

cheers
gary

 

[eddielarge]

i was thinking you have more chance of realising that the trip has gone if its on with other appliances, i had a customer the other day with the freezer citcuit on its own rcbo and cos it was in the garage no one noticed until it was too late....probably couple of hundred quids worth lost . best way to get around the holiday thing is to stay at home!!

cheers
gary

LIKE it

 

[timo]

Matt, What did you use to feed the none rcd MCB in the CU. I like to use Wylex boards too but there is no links provided to add none RCD circuits as std. Did you make one or extra order with the CU takle?

 

[eddielarge]

Matt, What did you use to feed the none rcd MCB in the CU. I like to use Wylex boards too but there is no links provided to add none RCD circuits as std. Did you make one or extra order with the CU takle?

The 17th edition wylex boards i get come with three bussbars

 

[Guest123]

Matt, What did you use to feed the none rcd MCB in the CU. I like to use Wylex boards too but there is no links provided to add none RCD circuits as std. Did you make one or extra order with the CU takle?

Wylex do a high integrity board....comes with 2 non RCD protected ways.

 

[mattcos1972]

Matt, What did you use to feed the none rcd MCB in the CU. I like to use Wylex boards too but there is no links provided to add none RCD circuits as std. Did you make one or extra order with the CU takle?

Hey Timo,

Here's the board the guys are talking about

WYLEX 10-Way Fully Insulated High Integrity Consumer Unit - Screwfix.com, Where the Trade Buys

Matt

 

[chris gray]

mattcos if you're paying that for a cu you're a mug.
here's hoping to god you're only use that link for presentation purposes only.

 

[mattcos1972]

This is what i do.

Put the fridge on the kitchen ring.
When you install new CU put a twin switched socket at the side of it or below or above, 2.5mm T&E straight into 16a MCB on non RCD part of board, no exposed cable.
At least then the circuit is compliant and customer has a get out of jail card, they just need etxn lead.

Most people go in their fridges daily and not having power for this amount of time i no problem.
If they come home after 2 weeks holiday to defrosted fridge and scrap food then this is why they should have insurance.

Regards..........Howard

Hi Howard,
Cheers for your reply chap. Problem though is that there's no separate kitchen ring as such. Just one big GF ring. The kitchen fitters had a field day clipping cables down behind units etc and the floor is tiled so i don't wanna go there if i don't have to, as belling cables out just aint happening!! Can't see any value in putting that socket on the ring. It'd be easier to run it off another radial that services a different point in the kitchen and then rcd the circuit and see what happens re tripping. The house has had many additions in its 70 odd years so there radials all over the place. Really a full rewire is in order but my parents dont need the ag at the moment and the existing cables are in good condition (apart from that one circuit being rubber ). All readings are fine and Ins resistance max's my tester out, so no reason to start messing around just now. I just need to get in and out of there sharpish and get the paperwork done so I can get ready for my NIC inspection!!

All said and done I think the easiest (and most compliant) solution is to wire the socket from the non protected side of the board, keep it on the surface and only service the fridge.

 

[mattcos1972]

mattcos if you're paying that for a cu you're a mug.
here's hoping to god you're only use that link for presentation purposes only.

Easy tiger its just a picture , and the name's Matt by the way!

 

[chris gray]

if your're leaving the gf ring as is and it is a ring then why not spur off the board? just an option.
would you not need to label if 2 sockets in the same room are fed off different circuits?
gl matt

 

[mattcos1972]

if your're leaving the gf ring as is and it is a ring then why not spur off the board? just an option.
would you not need to label if 2 sockets in the same room are fed off different circuits?
gl matt

Hey Chris,
Yeah you are bang on, chap. I had no diagrams to go by but will be leaving quite a comprehensive one behind me as the kitchen has turned out to be quite a surprising little room. There's 4 double sockets on the main ring and 2 further sockets each on there own radial (fridge is one of them) also the boiler is fed from the upstairs ring through the ceiling. Not a bad little collection when you consider that the kitchen is about 9ft square!!

I'm gonna do exactly as you suggested mate. Radial straight from the CU, surface mounted and labelled as non RCD. If the use changes for the socket in years to come an RCBO can be added or it can switch sides to be RCD protected if there's room.

I have a few other things to tidy up in the place and dont want to spend too much time on that part as its not the biggest issue I have

Cheers again chap.

Matt

 

[timo]

mattcos if you're paying that for a cu you're a mug.
here's hoping to god you're only use that link for presentation purposes only.

Whats a good price for once of those then? Whats everyone else paying for C.U's ?

 

[eddielarge]

Whats a good price for once of those then? Whats everyone else paying for C.U's ?

i pay £50 fot 5 x 5 duel rcd and £1.70 a breaker wylex

 

[mattcos1972]

i pay £50 fot 5 x 5 duel rcd and £1.70 a breaker wylex

Yeah I just bought the high integrity for £54 exc. vat. Comes with the main switch and the 2 80A rcds.

 

[timo]

Online or local wholesalers?

Been paying £90 for 10Way dual with main sw, 2x rcd and 10 mcb's

 

[mattcos1972]

Online or local wholesalers?

Been paying £90 for 10Way dual with main sw, 2x rcd and 10 mcb's

Timo,
Try these guys.Gil- Lec Service is excellent (free next day on orders over £50)

Consumer Units | Extractor Fans | Chrome Switches

Matt