RCD fused spur suitable or not?

[Chris86]

Good Evening All,

I have been asked by the family of some elderly neighbours to install a socket in an understairs cupboard for a small chest freezer and add a lighting point in the same cupboard.

Installation is protected by a Wylex 3036 rewireable board so had no rcd protection and the family do not have the funds to upgrade this at the moment. So, to ensure the new socket and light comply, I am planning to reuse a redundant 16A supply which was feeding an old alarm panel, replace the current FCU with an RCD version and feed socket from there then run light through a second FCU.

Question is, do these RCD FCU's still comply? I seem to recall they cannot be used in this way under the 18th, is this correct or did I dream it somewhere? I have reservations about freezers on RCD's anyway but know it needs to be that way.

I don't do a great deal of domestic, my days are spent amongst conveyors and machinery in industrial maintenance so I hope you don't mind giving your opinions and advice.

ATB

Chris

 

[westward10]

Hard wire it to a fuse connection unit

 

[Andy78]

The 18th states only RCDs of 61008 and 61009 are to be used for additional protection (there's a few exceptions and wrinkles but how I stated it applies to this case)
I have asked this question of learned internet minds before today and a sensible reasoning would seem to be continue to use RCD sockets and FCUs but put them down as a departure.

You could also just put a DP RCD in a small enclosure near the board to protect the circuit there.

 

[ipf]

Well you're certainly upgrading....as long as the supply to the existing point tests OK. Are you installing to 18th? No, but you could install a separate rcd unit alongside the CU or the FCU to solve that. Minor Works Cert needed...…if the circuit is still connected

 

[Chris86]

Thanks all for your advice.

The 16A circuits tests out fine so I have no problems there, it is still connected at the board end. The house was built in 1982 and has been owned by the same couple who have had very little done to it so the installation is pretty much untouched and very tidy.

I will probably just stick to the RCD FCU plan, I know it's making my part of the installation a lot safer than existing and it will keep the costs reasonable for the family.

Thanks again,

ATB

Chris

 

[Dustydazzler]

Is there absolutely no way they can stretch to a basic board swap...

If it a absolutely not

Turn rcd fuses spur is a decent fix

 

[Chris86]

I did suggest a board swap and explained the benefits but they were not keen. They like having folks they know doing any work and when I explained I couldn't do it without the extra costs to notify building control, they were even less keen!

 

[Ian1981]

Rcd fused spurs and sockets are still made to a standard of bs7288 but are usually used to protect the load side only.
Bs7671 lists only 61008, 61009 and 60847-2 with rcd incorporated as suitably measures of additional protection ( but does not clarify if it’s the circuit or just a piece of equipment etc)
As bs 7288 units are usually for protection of the load side then depending on their application,they can still be used.
If your only installing say an extra point but the circuit is not rcd protected then I see no problem with using an rcd unit to bs7288 as you do not need to provide additional protection to the whole circuit in this instance.
Tripping times are 200ms and 40ms respectively however if used for additional protection then record the 5x test result only.

 

[telectrix]

why not just cut plug off freezer, hard wire into existing FCU, then fit a stand alone battery light, for what little use a light will be needed.

 

[Chris86]

Sorry folks, you are going to have to educate the factory bloke here! Does hard wiring it in to the existing FCU remove the need to provide rcd protection? Is this purely based on the fact that nothing is being altered on the circuit?

Thanks and ATB

Chris

 

[Andy78]

Sorry folks, you are going to have to educate the factory bloke here! Does hard wiring it in to the existing FCU remove the need to provide rcd protection? Is this purely based on the fact that nothing is being altered on the circuit?

Thanks and ATB

Chris

It would remove the need to provide rcd protection for a socket, which is a current requirement for all sockets up to 32A, even in factories.

 

[Chris86]

Yes of course, thanks, just found it in BBB, 411.3.3. Should have looked all this up overnight but trawling through the BBB can have a strange effect on blokes working night shifts!

Thanks again for the clarification.

ATB
Chris

 

[NPS-18]

I had the exact same issue recently when quoting for a job. As the RCD sockets or RCD FCUs are not listed in the 18th edition as allowable for additional protection, I was thinking they needed a complete board change.
I rand the NICEIC tech helpline who stated that it appears to be an error/ omission in the 18th and that a new amendment will include the use of the RCD and RCD FCU for additional protection.
I was advised that it’s still ok to use these but record as a departure.

 

[Andy78]

I had the exact same issue recently when quoting for a job. As the RCD sockets or RCD FCUs are not listed in the 18th edition as allowable for additional protection, I was thinking they needed a complete board change.
I rand the NICEIC tech helpline who stated that it appears to be an error/ omission in the 18th and that a new amendment will include the use of the RCD and RCD FCU for additional protection.
I was advised that it’s still ok to use these but record as a departure.

Hard to believe that these requirements are mistakes as the regs mentioning the product standards are entirely new to this edition and very specific. Just as hard to believe as anything the NICEIC come out with.

 

[Ian1981]

Hard to believe that these requirements are mistakes as the regs mentioning the product standards are entirely new to this edition and very specific. Just as hard to believe as anything the NICEIC come out with.

Very true but as we all know the committee who write the regulations themselves are more than prone to the odd error