RCD Tripping - Advice Needed

[jakeevans]

Hi Everyone,

So basically like a few other people, I really need some advice from some professional electricians and found this forum so I really hope someone out there can help.

Basically we had a hot tub installed back in June 2017, everything was running fine, till we went for a holiday in December 2017 so turned it off. When we came back, filled it back up and turned in on. Ever since that month 2 weeks after, our RCD seems to be tripping every now and again very randomly.

We called in a electrician who stated "I told you your old consumer unit may not supply enough power and it's given up". At that point, other devices in the home like our speakers were tripping the RCD instantly but yet at the neighbours house when tested, didn't.

So we went ahead with his advice of changing the whole consumer unit (he said it was worthwhile as the new 17th Regs came out and wouldn't hurt as it was 10 years old+)

So now once he fitted the new consumer unit, turned everything back on.. and voila all sorted. However, a week later, the new consumer unit RCD is tripping again! We tried to do our own fault finding and found that turning of the hot tub stopped the tripping. Called him and he said he doubts its the hot tub, so we called him out to come and see. In front of me, he showed and said the hot tub is fine, and is showing the correct voltage/amps at the tub. He said the next step is to do fault finding but its going to be running into the hundreds £££ and said the next time it happens try and unplug everything and plug one by one in to see if we can work out what's causing the RCD to trip, otherwise he's going to have to come and rampage through all the devices/sockets and made out it's a massive job.

So he left, and long and behold it tripped later on, so I did what he recommended, unplugged all our plugs from the sockets, and plugged them one by one..RCD didn't trip.

So having all circuits on again, the RCD seems to be tripping again and again daily. For example a 2 days ago, it tripped twice, just yesterday it tripped four times.

I still have a serious hunch its the hot tub, so yesterday night, turned it off at the consumer unit, and touch wood, it hasn't tripped up to now.

My question is to the electricians out there, is the hot tub causing the RCD to trip? The electrician said it's not the hot tub, yet when I turn the circuit off to the hot tub it hasn't tripped the RCD (as of yet).

I was also doing a bit of research about this earth leakage topic, and I'm not sure if I'm right, but am I right in thinking that if there is enough earth leakage on all the circuits it would trip the RCD? Reason being is that if I go with the theory its the hot tub, I'm guessing when the blowers automatically come on, or the pump/heater comes on, it's possibly sending a spike over the RCD limit?

The reason I came up with this theory is that we do run a small business from home, we have about 3 pc's, 8 monitors, 2 big laser printers, two freezers, three fridges..etc do you think that the earth leakage of all these are adding up, and the hot tub is the cherry on the top that's causing the it to trip randomly?

Just as background information, he's put a single RCD that's connected to our Kitchen Sockets, Upstairs Sockets, Downstairs Sockets, Shower, Utility Room Sockets and the hot tub. He has then used RCBO's on each lighting circuit.

Any help would be gratefully appreciated.

Kind Regards,
Jake

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

I understand your worry @jakeevans I dont think this is going to cost too much to put right - there are a few knowledgable folk on this forum not far from where the hot tub is in northampton who might be able to help, assuming the cable out to the hot tub is up to scratch and a suitable size then it could just be a case of some testing and subsequent moving some bits around in the consumer unit to better share out your circuits and placing the hottub on its own suitable rcbo. in any case I wouldnt get your electrician back... he sees you as £ signs

 

[Deleted member 9648]

I wonder if there's a N-E fault on the lighting circuit that's on an MCB, could cause the RCD to trip even now when a load is on and would explain why he didn't RCD it.

 

[camerabloke]

Yeah that’s what I was thinking. A few quick tests will tell us for sure

 

[ipf]

Yeah that’s what I was thinking. A few quick tests will tell us for sure

#43......

 

[Deleted member 9648]

This week came across a new wylex dual RCD board, two sockets circuits,kitchen and rest of the house. Rest of the house on a non RCD MCB way. The guy wanted some more sockets in the lounge, suspicions aroused a quick test showed 0,00 megohms N-E on the MCB ring. Apparently the monkey who changed the board had explained that it was not permitted for all the sockets in the house to be on an RCD!!....so as long as at least the kitchen was RCD'd it complied. Bullsh......t at it's most sophisticated.
No extra sockets till that's sorted matey!

 

[jakeevans]

Thanks everyone, I'm so glad there are knowledgeable people like you guys out there Honestly this RCD tripping was becoming a big big nuisance, couldn't even get on with our work. Now that you have explained @Gavin John Hyde I just hope it's just some moving about that will cure the issue.

The electrician did look knowledgeable, he did use that big armoured cable from the tub to the consumer unit and did a neat job, and that's the first thing I checked about being Part P qualified (so that put my mind at rest straight away), just can't understand why he left it in this state, the electrician itself works for the hot tub company.

Even after researching myself, I would have thought a simple 32amp RCBO would have been a better option even though I'm no electrician myself. Just wish I made contact on this forum sooner

It's a pain in the neck when all our fridges,freezers and pc's go off all due to this hot tub...hope it isn't going to be a ongoing pain in my life

I'm glad however at least the RCD is working. After hearing your story @wirepuller , I think I would stay at a hotel if that happened to me, no RCD is like a person just waiting to get fried...

 

[jakeevans]

Also just out of curiosity, I need to ask this, my cousin had her kitchen just redone, looks really nice, but I couldn't help notice that under the sink, right under the hot and cold water pipes, the electrician installed a socket for the washing machine right under them.

It looks really worrying because if that pipe ever drips, or worst case scenario, bursts, its just going to leak all over the socket.

Is installing a socket under kitchen sink pipes ok?

Also one other question, for their consumer unit, all their circuits were on RCBO's, is that common practice? and is ok?

 

[Des 56]

It looks really worrying because if that pipe ever drips, or worst case scenario, bursts, its just going to leak all over the socket.

If you were to apply that reasoning to the vast majority of domestic installations then there are countless potentially worrying installations where the bathroom is located upstairs and a Kitchen dotted with accessories (these sockets may have channelling that could direct the flow of water) directly below

Its quite common for accessories to be in a position where water pipes are present,they present no more danger than those that appear not to be threatened by burst or leaking pipes

The most important thing with electrical gear is to have adequate protection should a problem occur,there is nothing untoward about siting a socket under a sink

 

[Des 56]

Rcbos filled boards are a better form of applying the protection the regs require, rather than the standard dual Rcd boards that are usually fitted,the dual Rcd board just about fulfils the requirements if not the intent of the required protection
Good to hear she has a full Rcbo protected board

 

[Toneyz]

Obviously without seeing it I can’t tell but I can do some tests if you want us to have a look. Won’t take long to test

Caerablokes a bit vocal lately

 

[camerabloke]

Me? Nah

 

[sparksfly]

Hi Jake...it is sad that there are individuals and companies out there that see £££'s before reason and are quick to replace or upgrade. I agree it could have been investigated first but whats done is done. As mentioned by others here at least you have a good quality board with some RCBO's but the overall circuit layout could have been configured better. You can get an RCBO installed for the Hot tub, perhaps consolidate/move 2x light circuits into one free up another space for a RCBO socket circuit.

Maybe mention/suggest to the electrician could he swap a few 6a for 32a RCBO's ? would he be willing as there is still a fault as before ( as you had a distant relative electrician visit recently who suggested this !!) Would he consider doing this for free ?...it is worth a try. Then the hot tub circuit can be tested by someone else later.

I don't think you have been ripped off per say but the standard is lower than expected as no/or V little thought has been applied to circuit layout/separation. I often give the customer options with regard to new consumer units, they opt for new consumer unit and test afterwards (as opposed to test report first, replace later). I always have a caveat "if you have any inherent earth faults I will fix them if it takes only a few seconds/minuets to correct otherwise it would have to be at extra cost". This is being honest.....or...maybe I could borrow/hire Pete's famous "Crystal Ball" before starting any electrical work.

Another note:-
As I get older and a little more cynical I wonder who sponsors programmes like rogue traders? I wonder if it is some subscription loving, corporate companies with big advertising budget's, selling home services !!! Don't get me wrong, bring bad workmanship to task but I'd like to think there are still quite a few out there who work V hard and go to sleep knowing they have done their best out there.

 

[camerabloke]

I think the faith and trust into getting the original sparks back has gone. After reading this as maybe an outsider would. I wouldn’t have them back to do jack in my house

 

[Octopus]

But seemingly reluctant to have one of offers on here to visit FOC either ................ odd to say the least!

 

[Gasinspect]

Agree with all the comments about the way RCBO's have been used, and never a good idea to lump all power circuits.
Also check that the sockets for your IT equipment have separated earths - two separate earth terminals for each socket.
Get insulation and earth leakage test on hot tub.
And find a new electrician.