Reverse Energy Detected - usage gone up 71% !!

[flotmangooner]

Hi,

I had a 4kw system installed on the 16th November. Since then we have generated about 130kwh which seems a bit low to me but saying that, the weather has been pretty awful and my system faces SW so is not getting the best of what sun we have.

I give my electricity readings to British Gas each month and was staggered to see that my usage for the period 21/11 to 22/12 had gone UP 71% on the previous month. I was expecting our usage to drop after the installation especially as we have made a concerted effort to use the washing machine and dishwasher during daylight hours. I have noticed on our electricity meter the letters r.e.d which I understand means reverse energy detected. I have spoken to the installer who have advised me to contact BG as the meter appears to be recording the energy we have exported back to the grid. I have emailed BG and will wait to see what sort (if any) reply I get but I would like other people’s opinions or comments if they have come across the same issue and if so how was it rectified ?

I am mortified that I am now creating my own electricity and exporting it back to the grid but being charged for it 

Many thanks

 

[solarsparkie]

it would be handy to know the make and modle number of your meter so we can advise clients in future

 

[redmile-energy]

We have had a few infrequent issues regarding meters; going up/going down etc... obviously the UK's housing market spans a vast timeline and so do the meters contained in them- it really is a case of turning on the PV system and monitoring the meter on the off chance you have issues.

Besides this the meter is not something that can be altered or interfered with by anyone but a qualified person, more than likely someone from british gas or an approved contractor. Basically British Gas should be replacing your meter free of charge and this will more than likely be the outcome- there is no other sensible resolution, they could never expect you to pay for energy you aren't using.

 

[TedM]

There are some modern meter models (Siemens is one) that, if so configured, will add any export detected to the import reading. This is an option that is designed-in to the meter as an anti-fraud measure. Your supplier should know this and arrange to change the meter or, at least, get it reconfigured.

 

[VMan]

This is a good post,
My old man swears his electricity bills have gone up since having his PV install done back in june. ill have to take a look at the meter on a bright day!

 

[dansk]

Had it a few times on the Siemans meters.

 

[and]

Meters aside, generating 130kW since 16 Nov is fine.

Have a look on pvoutput.org (you can filter what you look at, ie just UK systems), this will give you a good idea of what people are getting; at the end of the day, if it's sunny the kW's clock up, if it's dull they just tick over very slowly.

Mine was 157kw for the same period (3.92kw system) - best sunny day = nearly 9.3kW, worst day = 0.2kW.
Am between S and SE.

 

[moggy1968]

thanks for the info. I have emailed all my customers tonight to be on the lookout.

 

[liquidity]

Siemens meters not listed and a bit out of date but have a look at https://www.electriciansforums.net/attachments/5560-manufacturer_poll_response_summary-pdf.120244/

 

[flotmangooner]

Hi Guys,

I am in contact with British Gas (my electricity and FIT supplier) - i will let you know what they say.

Will check my meter tonight but almost certain it is NOT a Siemans.

Wonder how many people are out there who have had a PV array installed with a similar problem that they are unaware of ?

 

[flotmangooner]

Thanks for the replies Guys.
There may be another side to this story.......
We have an electric radiant heater which is used in our conservatory. Because my wife works nights, she is at home during the day and i am beginning to think that the heater has been on for the majority of the day - everytime i look at it, it is on the top setting !!!.
I mentioned this to her and she looked a bit sheepish so i am beginning to think that perhaps our usage increase is down to this damm heater. Since i mentioned it to her, she says she has not been using it as much so last night i checked our reading again and my daily average has dropped from 29 units to 21.5units which is still higher than normal.
Our average usage before we had the PV installed was about 16 units a day - it still seems odd that even with the high heater usage our overall usage is still higher than before the system was installed. Are these radiant heaters that thirsty ??
Thanks

 

[liquidity]

Have a look at the sticker on the heater -- 2000-2500 watts is easily possible. Portable electric heaters are disguised money pits.

 

[flotmangooner]

Have a look at the sticker on the heater -- 2000-2500 watts is easily possible. Portable electric heaters are disguised money pits.

The heater in question is a 2kw Sunburst Radiant Heater which was on for a few hours every day. Since our PV installaion in mid November we have generated an average of 2.77kw each day. Am i correct in thinking the following:

Generated electricity = 2.77kw per day.
From this i have to take everything we use during the day - washing machine, diswasher, radiant heater, tv's, playstations, lights etc etc which i assume will come to more than 2.77kwh (especially with the heater use). Once the 2.77kw i have generated has been used up, i then start using power from the grid. I am beginning to think that i will only see a reduction in my electricity bills during the summer months when the array is producing a lot more than 2.77kw per day.

 

[Gary K]

The heater in question is a 2kw Sunburst Radiant Heater which was on for a few hours every day. Since our PV installaion in mid November we have generated an average of 2.77kw each day. Am i correct in thinking the following:

Generated electricity = 2.77kw per day.
From this i have to take everything we use during the day - washing machine, diswasher, radiant heater, tv's, playstations, lights etc etc which i assume will come to more than 2.77kwh (especially with the heater use). Once the 2.77kw i have generated has been used up, i then start using power from the grid. I am beginning to think that i will only see a reduction in my electricity bills during the summer months when the array is producing a lot more than 2.77kw per day.

NO mate, you may generate 2.77kwh in a day but at any time you may only be generating say 500 watts and a lot less if there is heavy cloud cover. If your wife turns on this 2kw heater you will instantly be importing 2kw minus whatever you are generating at the time and thats without any other usage such as fridge,freezer,tv computer ETC.
29Kwh in a day??? - are you running a pottery kiln or something.LOL

 

[flotmangooner]

29Kwh in a day??? - are you running a pottery kiln or something.LOL

LOL - no but i am running a wife (who likes to be warm and does enough washing for an army !), 2 kids, 2 televisions, 2 play stations, computer, laptop, 2 tropical fish tanks with lights and heaters 24/7.

 

[bluenev]

I have just asked EDF to swap my 17 year old meter, Ferranti Type FNN2Q (or 20) (Big old black meter!). The wheel is spinning backwards when we are exporting around 2Kw but the numbers are going FORWARD!!!
This has only happened on the sunny days... 7 in 40 days. On the cloudy days we generate around 250w for 5 or 6 hours a day whilst using 500w. Apart from when we use the washing machine or dishwasher, which is done when its sunny.
We have generated around 95 kwhr in 40 days since 04Dec11 with our South facing 4kwp system. Not bad for the sun being at it lowest.
Once this glitch is sorted, I'm looking forward to powering the whole kitchen and all our energy guzzling TV's and the PS3!

I look at a few local PVOutput users graphs to see how we did each day but have a Wattson that tells me yesterdays usage/generation etc. I knew something was wrong when our best sunny days coincided with our highest usage.

I am working on an automated device to supply the surplus energy to an immersion heater (as per another thread) to replace my toes that can reach the on/off switch of an oil filled radiator!
:lol:
Watch out for Wheels going Backwards and the numbers going forward!

Nev

 

[darrens1973]

i have 4kw on my roof, just popped upstairs to see my generation meter reading, noticed the led on the EDF meter was flashing at the same rate as the generation meter led, turned everything off apart from my PV and guess what, the EDF Meter is still flashing away !!!
I am about to ring EDF now, on the flip side my mums and my business partners are running backwards so will have to get them to contact their suppliers I guess. Should we be checking for this when we commission then, if so this was never mentioned in any course I did or 2 of my sparks have been on !!!

 

[liquidity]

You might wish to check that your EDF meter isn't the type than can record import and export - what make/model is it?

 

[danesol]

LOL - no but i am running a wife (who likes to be warm and does enough washing for an army !), 2 kids, 2 televisions, 2 play stations, computer, laptop, 2 tropical fish tanks with lights and heaters 24/7.

Sounds about right to me especially if you have large HD plasma's , PS3's take a huge amount and pcs range from 200wphr to 900wphr

If you havent got one already, want would be useful for you is a monitor of what you are actually using, then as soon as you switch on something you can instantly see what its actually using

 

[darrens1973]

my meter is a horstmann S123, dual rate with export facility, how di I know that the export facility has been activated and it is not adding to my bill, guess I need to turn everything off for an hour or two and compare meter readings

 

[liquidity]

I'll venture a guess that the LCD display will display the different stored values for import and export, automatically swapping every few seconds?

 

[bluenev]

EDF's green team got EON to install a Landis+Gyr Single Rate Watt Hour Meter.... in an agreed couple of weeks. Magic service. Looks like it is working as we are using 27% less from the mains in the 2 months we've had Solar PV.
Hoping to be a lot better than that over a full year.
Not sure if the meter actually flashes for each Whr exported but we are certainly not being charged for exporting anymore! :shades_smile:

We also see a message, "r.Ed.", on the Unit alternating with the reading. Not sure what this means!

 

[liquidity]

red = reverse energy detected - 100% OK as you have a PV system

 

[bluenev]

red, cool... must have been sunny!

 

[pwboston]

On my EON meter it flashes red to say i am drawing power, and stays solid red when im sending it back. Not too sure if others meters are like that, but i can see when im sending it back down the grid.

 

[Gary K]

On my EON meter it flashes red to say i am drawing power, and stays solid red when im sending it back. Not too sure if others meters are like that, but i can see when im sending it back down the grid.

My meter is the same but, but when I have a solid red LED it also flash's R.E.D but the figures do not rise so I assume the meter is not adding anything when we are exporting.

 

[darrens1973]

my meter is a dual tariff meter, night/day. It flashes all of the time, never goes solid red. I do have red in small letters on the screen above the total unit reading, I turned everything off yesterday for 2 hours, the PV Generation meter went up 1.4 units and my EDF Meter stayed the same so I guess that proves that even though my LED is flashing it is not adding to my bill.
There is nothing on my meter to say about export, I tried to download some info on the meter and ther is nothing available !!!

 

[Orffyreus]

Although it would be good practice for installers to advise customers to contact their supplier if a meter runs backwards, suppliers do have an obligation to check after an installation has been notified.

According to the Balance and settlement code (BSC) overview of micro generation, a copy of which can be downloaded from the link below.


http://www.renewable-energy-resource.net/support-files/introvone.pdf


Page 3 paragraph 2 states


The Supplier responsible for the Import Meter is obliged to check the existing Import Meter does not run backwards at times of surplus. A 'backstop' or an electronic meter will prevent the meter from running backwards.


The full BSC documents says


. When informed of the installation of microgeneration, the LDSO should inform the Import Supplier that the respective site is capable of microgeneration; and

. The Import Supplier and Meter Operator will investigate whether the relevant Meter is fitted with a backstop and where applicable replace the Meter with one that is fitted with a backstop.

As a footnote, customer agreements and terms will probably put the onus on the customer to notify the supplier.

 

[MicraShed]

EDF's green team got EON to install a Landis+Gyr Single Rate Watt Hour Meter....

We also see a message, "r.Ed.", on the Unit alternating with the reading. Not sure what this means!

Ive had a 2.5kWp system live for a week now and the first few days were fine, then suddenly on day 4 we get the rEd message and since then the import meter has been climbing at roughly the same rate as the generation meter (slightly less) even with almost everything in the house powered down.
Red LED stays lit solid (as it does at night on the generation meter when the system has shut down and the inverter is on standby) but the units are clocking up:cry_smile:
Phoned Scottish Power today to query it to be told (and I jest ye not) that the RED means that the meter is sending a reading down the electricity mains cable to Scottish Power.

Hmmm

I think I'll phone them back on Monday and try and speak to the Micro Generation team.

Odd though that all was fine for a few days then suddenly its like some anti tamper system has kicked in.

 

[rod123]

Hi,

I had a 4kw system installed on the 16th November. Since then we have generated about 130kwh which seems a bit low to me but saying that, the weather has been pretty awful and my system faces SW so is not getting the best of what sun we have.

I give my electricity readings to British Gas each month and was staggered to see that my usage for the period 21/11 to 22/12 had gone UP 71% on the previous month. I was expecting our usage to drop after the installation especially as we have made a concerted effort to use the washing machine and dishwasher during daylight hours. I have noticed on our electricity meter the letters r.e.d which I understand means reverse energy detected. I have spoken to the installer who have advised me to contact BG as the meter appears to be recording the energy we have exported back to the grid. I have emailed BG and will wait to see what sort (if any) reply I get but I would like other people’s opinions or comments if they have come across the same issue and if so how was it rectified ?

I am mortified that I am now creating my own electricity and exporting it back to the grid but being charged for it 

Many thanks

did this get resolves ? I think I may have the same problem. I have had solar panels for about 18 months and all fine. My electricity compnay then fitten a digital import meter and my electricity useage has increased.

 

[SolarCity]

Next time you have a bit of sunshine, switch off everything apart from the solar PV system. Monitor is for as long as you can and see if the meter rises. Easiest way to check.