Rewire opinions

[Gazthesparky]

Hi all

just been to have a look at a job and wanted options on what circuits to install and quote for

the Job is a total renovation so I was asked to go and carry out a eicr on the installation. I have suggested a total rewire due to lots and lots of diy wiring and it will be quicker to rip out and rewire. Now here's where I'm a bit stuck and want general opinions

the house is a 2 room upstairs flat with a enclosed stairwell and extra room which is a bathroom at the back of the house so it's tiny.

i don't know whether to install 2 light circuits and 2 ring circuits onto a duel RCD board. One light circuit in the front room and the other in the rear room then by the time I've put lights in the stairwell and cupboards that's there , the lighting circuits will have plenty of points on them so I can justify 2 circuits.

then there is the socket circuits would you run 2 circuits ? One for the front room and one for the rear. This then means that there is a max of 4 sockets on each circuit. Or would you run one circuit.

this then means that it won't comply to the regulations of splitting the house circuits over 2 RCDs to minimise loss of power.

just after a general consensus on the situation

Also there is floorboards so rewiring is going to be fairly strait forward. The issue I've got is there is a shop underneath and my concern is that there will be circuits from the upstairs flat I'm rewiring and the circuits for the shop below will be run in the same ceiling/floor space. Hence meaning 2 supply's from different distribution points

do you see this as a problem ?

Any suggestions greatly
received

 

[Octopus]

A RCBO board IS the way to go with a cooker circuit, light circuit and socket circuit.

Not sure what you mean about 2 supplies

 

[Gazthesparky]

A RCBO board IS the way to go with a cooker circuit, light circuit and socket circuit.

Not sure what you mean about 2 supplies

ok i ok I guess that way it would comply due to every circuit being on a separate rcbo and you would only loose one circuit at a time.

The 2 supplies bit I mean by the shop below circuits being run in the ceiling/floor void plus my new circuits for the flat above being in the same space. This means that the 2 properties share the same cable space. And due to the shop having a separate meter and supply than the flat above there will be circuits from the 2 different supply's run in the same space. This could cause confusion in the future by cables from the 2 properties sharing the same space

Should I be concerned by this or just rewire the flat and run the cables in the floor space

 

[jamesBoater]

Sorry but who would this cause confusion for and why! The only people doing anything with the wiring in the future should be fully competent to do so.

 

[telectrix]

just rewire the flat. don't use the same cable runs/holes as the shop. only problem i can see is mistaking the shop cables and you'll need to be careful what you are cutting/removing. might be an idea to use white sheathed cable for the flat to distinguish the 2 installations. i'd run a radial 20A circuit for the rooms' sockets and a 32A RFC for the kitchen.

 

[Clive P]

Hi,
Tel you're too fast, beat me to it!

Regards.

 

[Des 56]

this then means that it won't comply to the regulations of splitting the house circuits over 2 RCDs to minimise loss of power.

Hi Gaz Where did you find that little gem ?

Forget for the moment what the regulations actually ask for,why not think about why they have them in the first place

If you were having a shower late at night and the fridge goes ballistic,you don't want to be searching for the soap in the dark,no music because the sockets have gone out and falling out of the cubicle because you can't see where the door happens to be because the rcd took out everything

Now to minimise the chance of inconveniently smacking your head on the door frame,then passing out and dying in an embarrassing way
You could fit an emergency light,you could fit Rcbos like murdoch suggested,you could split the various circuits so that there is power of some sort available to assist you while you get your problem sorted,such as 2 or more Rcds

You can design the system to minimise these inconveniences,"you" are on the job,"you" can see the best options,"you" must decide, for all types of installation that you encounter whats seems to be the best set up

 

[Gazthesparky]

this then means that it won't comply to the regulations of splitting the house circuits over 2 RCDs to minimise loss of power.

Hi Gaz Where did you find that little gem ?

Forget for the moment what the regulations actually ask for,why not think about why they have them in the first place

If you were having a shower late at night and the fridge goes ballistic,you don't want to be searching for the soap in the dark,no music because the sockets have gone out and falling out of the cubicle because you can't see where the door happens to be because the rcd took out everything

Now to minimise the chance of inconveniently smacking your head on the door frame,then passing out and dying in an embarrassing way
You could fit an emergency light,you could fit Rcbos like murdoch suggested,you could split the various circuits so that there is power of some sort available to assist you while you get your problem sorted,such as 2 or more Rcds

You can design the system to minimise these inconveniences,"you" are on the job,"you" can see the best options,"you" must decide, for all types of installation that you encounter whats seems to be the best set up

I am am not directly quoting word for word the reg from the book my BGB was in the van but I have now got it and this is what I was referring to

3.6.3 applications of RCDs

314 installations are required to be divided into circuits to avoid hazards and minimise inconvenience in the event of a fault to take into account of danger that might arise from failure of a single circuit.

I was just asking for opinions/ other ways this can be achieved it just seems a waste to install 2 ring mains for the sake of 7 sockets

i think I might install one ring with 7 sockets on and a cooker circuit with 13amp plug with separate Rcbos this will then minimise the loss of power

 

[Engineer54]

Nothing to stop you using 2 X lighting circuits, and 2 X 16/20A radial circuits if your worried about article 314!! Many ways to design a suitable layout for such a small flat. Depends on what the owner is prepared to pay for on this rewire...

 

[Guest111]

If separation of circuits bothers you why not run all cables in loft then drop down to sockets? no danger of them getting confused with shop circuits then,plus it wont be too hard as you don't have many points to wire.

 

[telectrix]

If separation of circuits bothers you why not run all cables in loft then drop down to sockets? no danger of them getting confused with shop circuits then,plus it wont be too hard as you don't have many points to wire.

holy circuits, batman. good thinking.

 

[Guest55]

i just dont see a problem with cables for the flat running along side cables for the shop below , a non issue to be honest.

 

[7029 dave]

Just think a moment, how many dwellings flats, maisonettes, sharing the same void for cabling just no issue!!.

 

[telectrix]

same void is not a problem. i'd not like to see the both installations' cables fed through the same holes, though.

 

[paul_h]

I'd very much doubt the shops cables will be running under your floor.... Surely it would have some sort of fire barrier etc and if its faily modern then the shop will have been renovated and surely been rewired via its own unit? But stranger things have happened.....As for the flat I'd stick 2 lighting circuits and one socket circuit, individual rcbo's

 

[Gazthesparky]

I'd very much doubt the shops cables will be running under your floor.... Surely it would have some sort of fire barrier etc and if its faily modern then the shop will have been renovated and surely been rewired via its own unit? But stranger things have happened.....As for the flat I'd stick 2 lighting circuits and one socket circuit, individual rcbo's

You would think that the shops wiring is kept seperate and I'm guessing I won't know untill I lift the floors but going by the rest of the house I doubt very much that there's fire barriers lol from what I can gather it use to be a house years gone by and was sold off and a shop was made downstairs

Going to put rcbos in and 2 lighting circuits and one ring and a radial thanks for the input