Rewire radial circuit in kitchen

[jackdor]

hi all,
Myself and an other electrician are currently doing a rewire of an empty 3 bed detached house. We have installed separate ring circuits for up and down stairs but are thinking about putting a radial circuit into the kitchen as it is only small and will only have 1 switched fused spur and 2 double sockets. The reason for this is that the kitchen is an extension and can only get water, gas and electrical feeds from above via some boxing in. We don't want to run these sockets off the upstairs ring, but also don't want to run the feeds from down stairs up then down again. We could simply run 1 cable back to the ccu and put on a 16amp breaker. is this ok? or do we need to put another 2.5 in and make this a ring for 2 sockets and a switched fused spur.
thanks for your replys

 

[ryanryan]

16 amp in a kitchen..... i wouldnt! Ring every time!!

 

[Darkwood]

The circuit you wire has to be designed to meet the expected demand it will be encountering doing normal use, even if this kitchen is a little on the small side you will find most items used in a kitchen can load the circuit up pretty quick, kettle, toaster washing machine dishwasher etc so no i wouldn,t recommend a radial to feed the kitchen.
If you are already running a radial why dont you just make it a small ring???

 

[Mac]

Why not run it in 4mm4mm has a current rating of 25A and a power rating of up to 6000W

 

[welsh spark]

Deffinetly a ring every time in a kitchen a kettle and a toaster alone and your up over 16a thats without anything else switched on i made the same mistake as an apprentice years ago dont go there it cost a lot of time and agro A ring every time

 

[mechelec]

agree with mac but why not a A2 radial 4mm^2 with 32A breaker

 

[plug444]

Surely if you can get one cable to the kitchen then why not two?

 

[jackdor]

Thanks chaps thought as much.
cheers

 

[ajelec10]

Who actually likes ring mains i think we are among the only country in the world that use these, i only install them in kitchens due to the fact that its hard enough to get 3x 2.5 T+E in a switched fuse spur other wise id much rather install a radial, I've lost count of how many broken rings I've come across on PIRs. Whats your thoughts???
AJ

 

[Mac]

Who actually likes ring mains i think we are among the only country in the world that use these, i only install them in kitchens due to the fact that its hard enough to get 3x 2.5 T+E in a switched fuse spur other wise id much rather install a radial, I've lost count of how many broken rings I've come across on PIRs. Whats your thoughts???
AJ

I agree mate.They were introduced after the 2nd World War due to a shortage of copper.
The ring circuit and the associated BS 1363 plug and socket system were developed in Britain during 1942–1947.[1] They are commonly used in the United Kingdom and to a lesser extent in the Republic of Ireland. It is likely that they are also used in parts of the Commonwealth of Nations, where Britain had design influence in the past.
The ring main came about because Britain had to embark on a massive rebuilding programme following World War II.[2]. There was an acute shortage of copper, and it was necessary to devise a scheme that used less copper than would normally be the case. The scheme was specified to use 13 Amp fused socket outlets, and several designs for the plugs and sockets appeared. Only the square pin (BS1363) system survives, but the round pin D&S system was still in use in many locations well into the 1980s. This latter plug had the distinctive feature that the fuse was also the live pin and unscrewed from the plug body.
The ring circuit was devised during a time of copper shortage to allow two 3 kW heaters to be used in any two locations and to allow some power to small appliances, and to keep total copper use low. It has stayed the most common circuit configuration in the UK, although the 20A radial (essentially breaking each ring in half and putting the halves on a separate breaker) is becoming more common. Splitting a ring into two 20A radials can be a useful technique where one leg of the ring is damaged and cannot easily be replaced.
Another advantage of ring circuits was an economy of cable and labour, as one could connect a cable between two existing 15A radially wired sockets to make one 30A ring, then adding as many sockets as were desired. This was an important consideration in the austerity of the 1940s. This would leave the ring supplied by two 15A fuses, which worked well enough in practice, even if unconventional.
Many pre-war (round pin) installations used double pole fusing. When two 15A radials were converted to a ring on these systems, the ring would then be supplied by no fewer than 4 fuses. Such circuits are rare today.

 

[mechelec]

I can use wikipedia too Mac

 

[Mac]

I can use wikipedia too Mac

I know mate,but the ring was introduced to a lack of copper after the 2nd World War.There is no reason why you can't use 4mm to wire sockets in a house.

 

[zupos40]

The only problem I can see with using a 4mm2 radial is Zs and maximum length OSG page 49 32A type B 4mm/1.5 max L = 33 m where as 2.5mm/1.5 mm 32A type B ring is 106 m. OSG page 44 Small property not a problem but large property could be.

 

[Mac]

The only problem I can see with using a 4mm2 radial is Zs and maximum length OSG page 49 32A type B 4mm/1.5 max L = 33 m where as 2.5mm/1.5 mm 32A type B ring is 106 m. OSG page 44 Small property not a problem but large property could be.

If you use a ring,you will have 2 x 2.5mm at each socket which makes 5mm.If you use 4mm you will have to 2 x 4mm at each socket which amounts to 8mm apart from the last socket.IMO a better solution

 

[electricAl]

So the kitchen extension is new? recent? fairly old?

No wiring already installed?