Ring main issue!

[Jimbo1921]

Hi,
I'm after a little advice! I have been Carrying out a P.I.R on a old property. When testing a ring main I received a belt which did take me by surprise! After all I had just disconnected the conductors for the ring out of there terminals. So I isolated the supply and switched on one circuit at a time to identify what circuit was giving the live and neutral conductors a live feed whilst being out of the board. Found one of the lighting circuits cross feeding the ring. I have advised the customer of the problem and will require further investigation. Sorry for long winded message but I'm a little puzzled as to what could be feeding the ring? The only thing that comes to mind is obviously to start on the lighting circuit and go from there? Been back doing this work for a couple of months after doing a shift job for a number of years.:rolleyes4:

thanks in advance.

 

[Marvo]

You need to get back into your books and relearn the safe isolation and testing procedure before you kill yourself.

It's not uncommon to find circuits cross-feeding each other, get down and dirty and start removing all the sockets on the ring circuit to start with, chances are you'll come across the problem easily. If not then start splitting the circuit up into sections and use your tester to find where the link between the two circuits is.

Seriously though, sloppy testing practices and making assumptions gets electricians killed.

 

[Octopus]

So its an EICR (not a PIR), what code are you going to give it?

 

[SPARTYKUS]

Be completely retentive and up yourself about isolation, locking off, locking the meter cupboard, removing fuses and holding them on ones person, not left by the fusebox, etc.

And then check it is dead again. Use the proving unit (or a trusted source). And then check its dead again. Don't ever think you can over check.



And then check again.

 

[Jimbo1921]

So its an EICR (not a PIR), what code are you going to give it?

Yes it's a EICR, code 2.

 

[Jimbo1921]

Yes mate fully understood and thank you for the info.

 

[mobile]

This post reminded me of something that happened to a colleague of mine a few years ago. He was rewiring a terraced house and had removed the main fuse he actually had it in his pocket and still got a belt when disconnecting sockets after checking a few more he found socket behind tv wired back to back with socket in next doors I bet that took some explaining!!

 

[Octopus]

Yes it's a EICR, code 2.

You have been engaged to produce an EICR, complete the EICR, submit your invoice and walk away.

 

[Jimbo1921]

Cheers will finish and submit a bill.

 

[Jay Sparks]

You have been engaged to produce an EICR, complete the EICR, submit your invoice and walk away.

Why is it people always assume that they need to fix any faults they find during an EICR. The only fault I would try and fix, with the customers consent, is a C1. If the customer refuses, I will isolate the fault and walk away.
As Murdoch said, do EICR, invoice and walk. Put a price in for any defects/faults by all means but dont waste time fixing every fault there and then.

Jay

 

[Jimbo1921]

Why is it people always assume that they need to fix any faults they find during an EICR. The only fault I would try and fix, with the customers consent, is a C1. If the customer refuses, I will isolate the fault and walk away.
As Murdoch said, do EICR, invoice and walk. Put a price in for any defects/faults by all means but dont waste time fixing every fault there and then.

Jay

Yes Jay thanks, was wasting time on job!

 

[MDJ]

Hi,
I'm after a little advice! I have been Carrying out a P.I.R on a old property. When testing a ring main I received a belt which did take me by surprise! After all I had just disconnected the conductors for the ring out of there terminals. So I isolated the supply and switched on one circuit at a time to identify what circuit was giving the live and neutral conductors a live feed whilst being out of the board. Found one of the lighting circuits cross feeding the ring. I have advised the customer of the problem and will require further investigation. Sorry for long winded message but I'm a little puzzled as to what could be feeding the ring? The only thing that comes to mind is obviously to start on the lighting circuit and go from there? Been back doing this work for a couple of months after doing a shift job for a number of years.:rolleyes4:

thanks in advance.

Gasp, are you seriously admitting this here lol? pretty shocked and suprised tbh, in fact gobsmacked haha

 

[shanky887614]

Gasp, are you seriously admitting this here lol? pretty shocked and suprised tbh, in fact gobsmacked haha

 

[Jay Sparks]

Gasp, are you seriously admitting this here lol? pretty shocked and suprised tbh, in fact gobsmacked haha

I love the fact that you use the phrase "GASP" in a lot of your posts where you are shocked. I picture you sat there in your office/house and taking a deep breath whilst jumping back into your chair...lol

 

[MDJ]

I love the fact that you use the phrase "GASP" in a lot of your posts where you are shocked. I picture you sat there in your office/house and taking a deep breath whilst jumping back into your chair...lol

My head is usually in my hands, I cannot believe what I am reading at times hahahaha

 

[Jay Sparks]

Yes Jay thanks, was wasting time on job!

Your not alone, there are many people who conduct EICR's and think they need to fix the faults as they find em......but you may only be charging £150 ish for the EICR and if you fix every thing, you will end up spending a full day or more on a job for just £150....it's not worth it mate.

Jay

 

[Jimbo1921]

Yes mate for my sins, been in the industry since 1997 and believe it or not this is my first shock and yes am well versed in the safe isolation procedure but got sloppy. It will never happen to me again. It was only a couple of months ago during my assessment the topic of the safe isolation procedure was brought up and said that if I was to do it on the day it would be a automatic fail for obvious reasons. I hang my head in shame! Cheers to everyone for there input,.

 

[nickblake]

had one where some one crossed a ring main cable with a storage heater circuit 6 storage heaters were ru nning off a single 2.5 and a 30 amp fuse so all were running when the eco 7 supply was off ,always tale take and ensure supplies are isolated when carrying out dead tests

 

[Jay Sparks]

had one where some one crossed a ring main cable with a storage heater circuit 6 storage heaters were ru nning off a single 2.5 and a 30 amp fuse so all were running when the eco 7 supply was off ,always tale take and ensure supplies are isolated when carrying out dead tests

Wow...I bet their leccy bill was high???lol

 

[Jay Sparks]

Yes mate for my sins, been in the industry since 1997 and believe it or not this is my first shock and yes am well versed in the safe isolation procedure but got sloppy. It will never happen to me again. It was only a couple of months ago during my assessment the topic of the safe isolation procedure was brought up and said that if I was to do it on the day it would be a automatic fail for obvious reasons. I hang my head in shame! Cheers to everyone for there input,.

Back to the OP, it may be a borrowed neutral from the sockets to the lights.

 

[Jimbo1921]

May well be mate but won't know until I investigate the circuit further. Was originally called in to change there garage lights but found a horror as someone previously had used the cpc out of a three core t&e as a switch live! Rewired lighting circuit and client asked me to carry out a inspection on the rest of the property. Have found the fault on the ring aswell as no main bonding to gas and water. The older circuits have been ok testing wise but the issue involves the circuits containing a new kitchen installed 6 years ago.

 

[Jay Sparks]

May well be mate but won't know until I investigate the circuit further. Was originally called in to change there garage lights but found a horror as someone previously had used the cpc out of a three core t&e as a switch live! Rewired lighting circuit and client asked me to carry out a inspection on the rest of the property. Have found the fault on the ring aswell as no main bonding to gas and water. The older circuits have been ok testing wise but the issue involves the circuits containing a new kitchen installed 6 years ago.

In that case, as I said before, invoice for the EICR and put a quote in for the remedial works. If they dont accept your quote, at least you should still get paid for the EICR.

 

[Jimbo1921]

Will do, thanks again.