roller shutters

[joesdad]

Hi Guys,

does anyone know of any specific codes of practice, standards or wiring diagrams I can reference for wiring power and manual control switches to multiple roller shutters covering office windows. Im attempting to resolve a contractual dispute and need evidence based information.

regards

Joesdad

 

[telectrix]

bit out of my sphere of knowledge, sorry.

 

[monkeyelectric]

Hi Guys,

does anyone know of any specific codes of practice, standards or wiring diagrams I can reference for wiring power and manual control switches to multiple roller shutters covering office windows. Im attempting to resolve a contractual dispute and need evidence based information.

regards

Joesdad

Try the shutter manufacturer

 

[netblindpaul]

There are BS's & industry CoP's that ar relevant, I don't have any to hand at the moment, & I am short on time to look them up, but they are out there.

 

[Outspoken]

Hi Guys,

does anyone know of any specific codes of practice, standards or wiring diagrams I can reference for wiring power and manual control switches to multiple roller shutters covering office windows. Im attempting to resolve a contractual dispute and need evidence based information.

regards

Joesdad

One question, are these security shutters that are closed when a business is closed or are these entrance/exit shutters as you get on loading bays etc?

Perhaps if you actually explain, as best able, what the problem is and why it is a problem then perhaps we will all have a better idea of how to assist or guide you in the right direction.

 

[trev]

I'd guess that manufacturer's would be the best port of call.

 

[snowhead]

Maybe something on here;

Door and Hardware Federation - Publications

 

[joesdad]

One question, are these security shutters that are closed when a business is closed or are these entrance/exit shutters as you get on loading bays etc?

Perhaps if you actually explain, as best able, what the problem is and why it is a problem then perhaps we will all have a better idea of how to assist or guide you in the right direction.

The shutters are manually operated from within the office in groups and secure ground floor office windows out of office hours. The building has been rewired retaining the legacy shutters. I have a contra charge for repairs to motors and limit switches as the motors drove the blinds through the (failed) limit switches when operated

 

[Outspoken]

The shutters are manually operated from within the office in groups and secure ground floor office windows out of office hours. The building has been rewired retaining the legacy shutters. I have a contra charge for repairs to motors and limit switches as the motors drove the blinds through the (failed) limit switches when operated

OK, did you do the rewire work? Why did the limit switches fail, had they been rewired to contactors to shut of the motor supply as before or were these missed out, was this work part of the spec for the rewire, if not your not liable...Information please.

 

[snowhead]

I wouldn't have thought a building rewire would extend to rewiring the shutter control wiring.

Are we talking about 3 phase power to shutters,, went up when should have gone down?

 

[Outspoken]

I wouldn't have thought a building rewire would extend to rewiring the shutter control wiring.

Are we talking about 3 phase power to shutters,, went up when should have gone down?

Hence my question, if the control wiring has been partially or totally ripped out or otherwise bypassed it would explain if the shutters have power why the safety circuit would not operate, the key is to whether the control circuit was in the rewire spec or if they only had to provide power to point A etc. If the latter then I do not see how they could be responsible unless it could be demonstrated that some action they took has caused the problem

 

[Knobhead]

The shutters are manually operated from within the office in groups and secure ground floor office windows out of office hours. The building has been rewired retaining the legacy shutters. I have a contra charge for repairs to motors and limit switches as the motors drove the blinds through the (failed) limit switches when operated

The classic case of reversed phase rotation.

Anything that moves to a final limit should be at the centre position before anything is done to the supply. If it goes the wrong way, it won’t do any damage! The limits WON’T work when the drive is reversed.
Reversed the up limit will stop it going down the down limit will stop it going up. It’s basic engineering!

Get the cheque book out, it’s you’re fault.

 

[Knobhead]

Please, Please promise me:
You will never go near a lift or crane until you grasp the basic principals of machine control.

 

[tazz]

even with reverse rotation i would expect limiter switches to be installed on both up and down modes, so cant see a damage done here, but would suggest getting phases correct in the first place

 

[spark 68]

even with reverse rotation i would expect limiter switches to be installed on both up and down modes, so cant see a damage done here, but would suggest getting phases correct in the first place

Yes but the N/C limit switch will be on the wrong relay/contactor coil.
So if the motor is running the wrong way (phase rotation wrong), then the wrong limit switch will be operating on the de-energised coil and will not stop the shutter.

 

[tazz]

Yes but the N/C limit switch will be on the wrong relay/contactor coil.
So if the motor is running the wrong way (phase rotation wrong), then the wrong limit switch will be operating on the de-energised coil and will not stop the shutter.

See you point, so hopefully a OL trip

 

[Jonesy83]

Get me some details on motors and controls and I maybe able to help pics would be advantage are they single phase or 3 phase most likely single phase tube ops on windows are they individually controlled or on a group command

 

[Outspoken]

Yes but the N/C limit switch will be on the wrong relay/contactor coil.
So if the motor is running the wrong way (phase rotation wrong), then the wrong limit switch will be operating on the de-energised coil and will not stop the shutter.

That I do not get, whenever I have wired up roller shutters or similar equipment that has upper and lower limit switches I have always wired up the upper and lower switches in series with the E-Stop via a N/O (no-volt) contactor so if any of the three are operated the contactor coil loses power, releases and stops the motor drive dead in it's tracks..I do not get why you would wire in multiple circuits for the control of something so simple.

And the above is true for either single or three phase units. The phase the E-Stop/limit switches is on should be totally irrelevant all control circuit cabling should be on the same phase and the way that is connected at the motor or even the isolator should be totally irrelevant as well.

 

[Jonesy83]

Depends on the motor if its a single phase tube op motor then limits will stop as its a simple circuit but in a case of a 3 phase motor if the phases are reversed then the limits will also go to cock so it will ride past the top limit or lower limit

tube op limits are renowned for the limits moving or going faulty need more info of the op as he hasn't stated wether 3 phase or single phase also if there operated in a group or single and if in a group and how much of the wiring he's worked

 

[Knobhead]

That I do not get, whenever I have wired up roller shutters or similar equipment that has upper and lower limit switches I have always wired up the upper and lower switches in series with the E-Stop via a N/O (no-volt) contactor so if any of the three are operated the contactor coil loses power, releases and stops the motor drive dead in it's tracks..I do not get why you would wire in multiple circuits for the control of something so simple.

And the above is true for either single or three phase units. The phase the E-Stop/limit switches is on should be totally irrelevant all control circuit cabling should be on the same phase and the way that is connected at the motor or even the isolator should be totally irrelevant as well.

With the limits in series how do you get the shutter off the limit? If it’s up it won’t go down.

Cranes will have a top and bottom limit, one in each action. There would also be ultimate limits these killed all movements, they would be fitted with a “back out” switch under the control of the electrician.