Room Stat

[eric the spark]

Have never worked on heating system before, am currently refurbishing my house and am looking at installing a roomstat to a new biasi combi boiler 32e. Are room stats generally all the same or are there different types ect. . . . .

 

[telectrix]

some stats don't need a neutral, but most modern ones do, so you will need 3core/E from your stat

 

[grimysparks80]

Or you can get remote ones if you dont fancy running cables in

 

[invisable]

Some combi boilers require the room stat to be volt free so I would prob just check this before you go out and buy your room stat because if you were to by a electronic room stat and try and stick on the end of your 3 core you may find you need to run a extra cable ( L & N and your volt free Com and Call back to the boiler )

If you want to by a room stat before checking your boiler by one that doesnt require a neutral a quick way to tell is to turn the stat up and down (at room temp) if you here it click then it doesnt need a neutral but may be more accurate with it connected.

 

[puddle]

You can also get programable thermostats that allow different temps to be set at different times of the day,ie set cooler when moving about in the day and warmer first thing in the morning or evening,when sat about,these type of thermostat's can bring a nice saving on your fuel bills :stooge_moe:

 

[chris murphy]

You can also get programable thermostats that allow different temps to be set at different times of the day,ie set cooler when moving about in the day and warmer first thing in the morning or evening,when sat about,these type of thermostat's can bring a nice saving on your fuel bills :stooge_moe:

"Hello puddle",

That is one of the Best Money Saving Tips that you can give regarding Heating Controls.

Programmable Room Thermostats can be Set for up to 8 Different Timed Temperatures per Week - depending upon the Manufacturer and Model.

I have mine Set to:

Program 1: 23 Degrees at 05:00 Hours for Monday to Friday

Program 2: 18 Degrees at 08:00 Hours for Monday to Friday

Program 3: 23 Degrees at 17:00 Hours for Monday to Friday

Program 4: 18 Degrees at 00:00 Hours [Midnight] Monday to Friday

Program 5: 23 Degrees at 05:00 Hours Saturday

Program 6: 18 Degrees at 00:00 Hours [Midnight] Saturday

Program 7: 23 Degrees at 05:00 Hours Sunday

Program 8: 18 Degrees at 00:00 Hours [Midnight] Sunday

You can also Over-Ride the Set Temperature with the Press of a Button - to Lower or Increase the Thermostat Setting - this then changes back at the next Time & Temperature Setting.


THESE TEMPERATURES ARE OBVIOUSLY A PERSONAL / FAMILY CHOICE THING - NOT WHAT I WOULD SUGGEST TO ANYONE ELSE TO USE.

As You can see it would be better if there were more Time and Temperature Settings to be able to Set more Weekend Days Timed Temperatures - But 8 Settings seems to be the Norm for some reason.

A Pity - as I have Security Light Switches that allow up to 42 Settings it is obviously easily possible to manufacture the Programmable Room Thermostats with more Settings available.

Installing a Programmable Room Thermostat can enable the Householder to make considerable savings on their Gas Bills and I would always suggest that I include one as part of the Heating Controls on any Heating System that I Install.

These do need to be explained to the Client in a bit more detail because they can be confusing to Set Up and Temperature Over-Ride if not explained correctly.

Because I had planned to Move My Home`s Boiler during last Summer I had not gotten round to Installing a Programmable Room Thermostat previously - I ended up Fitting a New Programmable Room Thermostat in about the end of November [?]

Although We have had a Very Mild start to Winter this Programmable Room Thermostat has made a BIG difference to My Heating System Gas Usage.

Because of the Mild Winter Temperatures that We have had when My Room Thermostat is Set at 18 Degrees during the Daytime it often Stops the Boiler Firing for up to an Hour at a time.

puddle - Although I `Addressed` this Post to You - I have Posted these details in case that they might be Helpful to other Members / Guests on here - As You are a Heating Engineer You will already know all of this.


Regards,


Chris

 

[chris murphy]

"Hello to All",


I should have added when I explained about the Settings on My Programmable Room Thermostat that I have a Programmer controlling the Time Periods that the Heating System is `On / Off`.

The Programmable Room Thermostat has Temperatures Programmed for ALL Time Periods - So unless the Set Temperature is exceeded the Programmer will govern when the Heating System comes On and goes Off.


Chris

 

[Des 56]

A room stat on a gas fired central heating system must be the poorest way of efficient and convenient heat control
A single position monitoring of these systems is good only for a back up to rad valves and time functions
Why monitor the heat in one particular location to satisfy heat requirements in unrelated areas
Back up yes,but control,no way

 

[jase]

go for a honeywell, expensive but worth it

 

[chris murphy]

A room stat on a gas fired central heating system must be the poorest way of efficient and convenient heat control
A single position monitoring of these systems is good only for a back up to rad valves and time functions
Why monitor the heat in one particular location to satisfy heat requirements in unrelated areas
Back up yes,but control,no way

"Hello Des 56",


I agree wholeheartedly with You !


BUT at NO Time was this a Thread about ensuring that People receive Information on the Definitive Methods of Energy Efficiency for their Heating Systems.

MY comment in particular was completely accurate in complimenting puddle - He had recommended fitting a Programmable Room Thermostat - INSTEAD OF a `Normal / Basic` Room Thermostat - that was Excellent Advice.


IF I imagine that You have a `Normal / Basic` Room Thermostat and as I expect You also have Radiator Thermostats on ALL of the Radiators except One [In the Location where the Room Thermostat is] ? and You have a Well Insulated Home - I would advise that You Replace the Conventional Room Thermostat with a Programmable Room Thermostat and Program it to lower Temperatures when Your Home is not required to be Fully Heated - You Will STILL Save Money on your Fuel Bill.

Because that would be an increase in the Energy Efficiency of your Heating System / Home the Advice to Install a Programmable Room Thermostat - Posted by puddle and endorsed by Myself is GOOD Advice.


Do You know that it is a Legal Requirement to have a Room Thermostat on a Heating System - This is under the Building Regulations - `Part L` - which are applicable to ALL Central Heating Installations - including MOST Upgrades / Controls Additions - except for some exemptions on Systems which are heated by Solid Fuel / Wood Burning Appliances.


A Programmable Room Thermostat is FAR Superior to a Basic Room Thermostat - So fitting one instead of the Basic Type will ALWAYS be an Improvement in Energy Efficiency.


IF this was a Thread requesting Energy Efficiency Advice about Full Heating System Temperature Control We would obviously NOT be recommending JUST a Room Thermostat of any type.


We would have explained about Radiator Thermostatic Valves - Zoning - Stored Hot Water Temperature Control - and would have mentioned the requirement for Timed Controls in addition to the Temperature Controls and also requirements for Insulation to preventing Heat Loss etc.


As a Heating Engineer I know about Energy Efficiency.


In fact I and all other Heating Engineers / Heating Appliance Installers were `Forced` to Prove that [up to a point] when the Mandatory Building Regulation `Part L - Energy Efficiency` requirement to actually Pass an Exam in this Subject [City & Guilds in My case] was introduced - in order to Legally Remain a Registered Installer of Heating Boilers / Heat Producing Appliances.



So - Although I agree completely with your statement - puddle or I were NOT advocating that a Programmable Room Thermostat should be the Primary Central Heating Temperature Control.

In fact it would be against the Building Regulation `Part L` and its variations & additions if it was on most Heating Systems - As the Building Regulations are Legally Enforceable - it would be Illegal to Install a Heating System with just a Room Thermostat [Any Type] as the Temperature Control.


Please don`t take offence to My comments - I have written this Long Post just in case any other reader has mistaken what puddle and I meant by our recommendation of a Programmable Room Thermostat.


Regards,


Chris - Heating Engineer / Registered Gas Installer

 

[needasparks]

Sorry, But I would not spend too much on the roomstat as with a biasi you will need some of the money to have it fixed in six months.

 

[Des 56]

Quote Des
A room stat on a gas fired central heating system must be the poorest way of efficient and convenient heat control
A single position monitoring of these systems is good only for a back up to rad valves and time functions
Why monitor the heat in one particular location to satisfy heat requirements in unrelated areas
Back up yes,but control,no way

"Hello Des 56",


I agree wholeheartedly with You !


BUT at NO Time was this a Thread about ensuring that People receive Information on the Definitive Methods of Energy Efficiency for their Heating Systems.
Nor was my post implying that was so

MY comment in particular was completely accurate in complimenting puddle - He had recommended fitting a Programmable Room Thermostat - INSTEAD OF a `Normal / Basic` Room Thermostat - that was Excellent Advice.
I had/have no issue with any of your very knowledgeable and skilled advise


IF I imagine that You have a `Normal / Basic` Room Thermostat and as I expect You also have Radiator Thermostats on ALL of the Radiators except One [In the Location where the Room Thermostat is] ? and You have a Well Insulated Home - I would advise that You Replace the Conventional Room Thermostat with a Programmable Room Thermostat and Program it to lower Temperatures when Your Home is not required to be Fully Heated - You Will STILL Save Money on your Fuel Bill.
Acknoleged

Because that would be an increase in the Energy Efficiency of your Heating System / Home the Advice to Install a Programmable Room Thermostat - Posted by puddle and endorsed by Myself is GOOD Advice.
Agreed


Do You know that it is a Legal Requirement to have a Room Thermostat on a Heating System - This is under the Building Regulations - `Part L` - which are applicable to ALL Central Heating Installations - including MOST Upgrades / Controls Additions - except for some exemptions on Systems which are heated by Solid Fuel / Wood Burning Appliances.
Yes I was aware of that requirement



A Programmable Room Thermostat is FAR Superior to a Basic Room Thermostat - So fitting one instead of the Basic Type will ALWAYS be an Improvement in Energy Efficiency.


IF this was a Thread requesting Energy Efficiency Advice about Full Heating System Temperature Control We would obviously NOT be recommending JUST a Room Thermostat of any type.


We would have explained about Radiator Thermostatic Valves - Zoning - Stored Hot Water Temperature Control - and would have mentioned the requirement for Timed Controls in addition to the Temperature Controls and also requirements for Insulation to preventing Heat Loss etc.


As a Heating Engineer I know about Energy Efficiency.
Acknoleged


In fact I and all other Heating Engineers / Heating Appliance Installers were `Forced` to Prove that [up to a point] when the Mandatory Building Regulation `Part L - Energy Efficiency` requirement to actually Pass an Exam in this Subject [City & Guilds in My case] was introduced - in order to Legally Remain a Registered Installer of Heating Boilers / Heat Producing Appliances.


So -Although I agree completely with your statement - puddle or I were NOT advocating that a Programmable Room Thermostat should be the Primary Central Heating Temperature Control.
I did not infer or state that was the reason for my reply

In fact it would be against the Building Regulation `Part L` and its variations & additions if it was on most Heating Systems - As the Building Regulations are Legally Enforceable - it would be Illegal to Install a Heating System with just a Room Thermostat [Any Type] as the Temperature Control.


Please don`t take offence to My comments - I have written this Long Post just in case any other reader has mistaken what puddle and I meant by our recommendation of a Programmable Room Thermostat.
Not at all,your posts are generally interesting and valued information, my post was a response to the sometimes flawed view that roomstats were an efficient control rather than a suuplementary aid to the primary and probably only efficient means of central heating control (.other than multiple stats for multiple heating zones ) It was in no way an attempt to make issue with any of the previous posts



Regards,


Chris - Heating Engineer / Registered Gas Installer

Thank you for the informed response,it will no doubt be of valued help to many readers

 

[chris murphy]

Quote Des
A room stat on a gas fired central heating system must be the poorest way of efficient and convenient heat control
A single position monitoring of these systems is good only for a back up to rad valves and time functions
Why monitor the heat in one particular location to satisfy heat requirements in unrelated areas
Back up yes,but control,no way



Thank you for the informed response,it will no doubt be of valued help to many readers

"Hello Des 56",


Thanks for your reply.


Please accept My Apology.


I had thought that You were stating that the advice by puddle to fit a Programmable Room Thermostat instead of a Basic Room Thermostat - which was endorsed by Me was NOT credible / usefull advice.

While I was NOT trying to be pedantic - because I had taken what You wrote in the wrong way I wanted to explain further about the remark that I made when I complimented puddle on His advice - and then respond to your comments.


The further information that I Posted was to explain more about the Programmable Room Thermostat being used in conjunction with the other necessary Temperature and Timed Controls and I mentioned Insulation against Heat Loss.


Thank You for your highlighted comments and the gracious remarks - I am glad that You did not take any offence to what I wrote.



Regards,


Chris

 

[chris murphy]

Sorry, But I would not spend too much on the roomstat as with a biasi you will need some of the money to have it fixed in six months.

"Hello needasparks",


I know that You are commenting about the `Quality` of Biasi Boilers and I would not disagree.

I just wanted to mention for People who have been reading about the Programmable Room Thermostat on here - these can be purchased for about £40.00 - for the Battery Operated [For Timings] Type.

The Battery Operated Models can be fitted where only a 2 Core cable exists - so ideal for replacing older Room Thermostats which were wired in that way.

However I would NOT recommend installing a 2 Core cable to ANY Room Thermostat - even if fitting a Battery Operated Programmable Room Thermostat - You should run a 3 Core & Earth cable to allow for any future `Upgrade` to a Thermostat which might require a Neutral connection - for example where a Backlit Display is required.


Regards,


Chris

 

[boldspark]

"Hello to All",


I should have added when I explained about the Settings on My Programmable Room Thermostat that I have a Programmer controlling the Time Periods that the Heating System is `On / Off`.

Programmable roomstats don't have an "off" in the timing; off can only be activated manually.

 

[snevitt17]

buy a wireless one mate,no wiring needed only a 5 core flex from your combi to your sender L-N-E,and 2 cores from your room stat connections,easy peasy,you then have the flexability of putting your room stat wherever you want it,and if you buy a programmable one,you have all the controls you ever need

 

[chris murphy]

Programmable roomstats don't have an "off" in the timing; off can only be activated manually.

"Hello boldspark",


I`m not sure what You thought I meant by the Quote that you used ?


I was just adding to My Post so that People would NOT think that I meant the Programmable Room Thermostat was being used to Control the On / Off of my Heating System.

I felt that there could have been a misunderstanding about that - by People who did not know about the Operation of Programmable Room Thermostats - which means a LOT of People.


Chris

 

[boldspark]

"Hello boldspark",
I`m not sure what You thought I meant by the Quote that you used ?
I was just adding to My Post so that People would NOT think that I meant the Programmable Room Thermostat was being used to Control the On / Off of my Heating System.

What I meant was: when you install a programmable roomstat, the heating does not have "off" periods any more; it is like setting an old fashioned system at "heating on" 24/7, only with different temperatures.

 

[chris murphy]

What I meant was: when you install a programmable roomstat, the heating does not have "off" periods any more; it is like setting an old fashioned system at "heating on" 24/7, only with different temperatures.

"Hello boldspark",


I was asking what You thought I meant by the Quote that you Posted [of My comments].


Regarding your comment about Programmable Room Thermostats - This has made Me think that You must have misunderstood something that I wrote ?


As far as I remember - No-one has stated that a Programmable Room Thermostat should be used to Control the On / Off Settings on a Heating System - My comment was to clarify this which is why I stated that I have a Programmer that Controls the On / Off of My Heating System.

I have noticed from your Profile that you are an Electrical and Heating Engineer - I am also a Heating Engineer - So I am NOT writing this to cause am Argument between Us.

I am sure that You will realise that We must write for the Benefit of those readers who are NOT Heating Engineers when We `Discuss` this matter.

When I query what You wrote or explain further what I meant and then Add details it is for the benefit of others who may NOT immediately understand what We mean.

Just as a matter of discussion - when a Programmable Room Thermostat is Set Up obviously there could be Timed Periods where a very low Temperature Setting was Programmed - this would in effect act as an `Off` Period.

In Fact it would be possible to Set Up the Programmable Room Thermostat so that it acted as an `On / Off` Timeswitch by utilising the Timed / Temperature Settings - For example:


Monday to Friday - 06:00 Hrs - 22 Degrees


10:00 Hrs - 10 Degrees - This acts as an `Off` Period


16:00 Hrs - 22 Degrees


00:00 Hrs - 10 Degrees - this acts as an `Off` Period


I am NOT trying to be pedantic here - just showing an alternative option regarding the use of a Programmable Room Thermostat.

Although I would NEVER Install a Heating System without a Programmer or a Timeswitch - as well as the Programmable Room Thermostat.


Chris

 

[boldspark]

Although I would NEVER Install a Heating System without a Programmer or a Timeswitch - as well as the Programmable Room Thermostat.

Just out of curiosity, why is that?

I'm not quite sure I understand your question with regards of what I thought about the comment, so I explained the benefit of a programmable roomstat; not for you in particular but for anyone that reads this thread.

No offense, but the way you "programmed" the stat in your last post, is like buying a hd tv to watch vcr tapes.

 

[chris murphy]

"Hello boldspark",


As it seems that We are both misunderstanding each others comments - I think that I will leave our correspondence with this Post.


You have obviously misunderstood My motive for describing how `Off Periods` can be programmed into one of these Room Thermostats - or you would not have written this:

`No offense, but the way you "programmed" the stat in your last post, is like buying a hd tv to watch vcr tapes`



I made the comment about programming the Programmable Room Thermostat to act as a Timeswitch BECAUSE You had made remarks which stated that Off was NOT an option - I simply wanted other readers to see that they could have Off Periods with a Programmable Room Thermostat - If they wished.

I personally would NOT recommend that a Programmable Room Thermostat was purchased just to be used in the way that I stated could be Programmed - re. the `Off Periods`.

I would be encouraging People to Fit this type of Room Thermostat as they are FAR Superior to a Basic Room Thermostat - in terms of Saving Money - Your comments might have discouraged People.


I will `Debate` any topic regarding Heating - Plumbing or Gas - But NOT if I suspect that someone is deliberately looking for an argument - I may be wrong about this - But the way that You have replied to My Posts SEEMS to Me to be going that way - ?


I will look forward to reading Your views on other subjects - but I will leave our `Discussion` about Programmable Room Thermostats here.


Chris