Running Radial From Ring

[SKY]

How many radial sockets can you run from a ring main? is the answer the same for a kitchen?

But if you are working on someone house where the cable all chased in how can you tell if the ring socket in question does not already have a radial running from it?

I'm still at college so go easy on me.


Many Thanks

 

[acat]

On a ring you can have one spur for every socket any more than that you must have a fused spur testing should tell you but if in doubt take the socket out if you have nine cables its feeding a spur


Chris

 

[chris gray]

i thought you were only allowed one point off a socket on the ring?
ie you cant run a radial off a ring, even if you do put a switch fused spur in ?

 

[Notsosmart]

You can have an unfused spur connected to each socket outlet on a ring, a quick visual of the socket connections to see if you have a pair of Lives, a pair of neutral & a pair of earths will indicateyou may have a candidate to spur from.
To ensure that you are connecting to a ring (and not the middle of a radial), you deaden the circuit, lift the socket face disconnect the neutrals (check that it is in fact dead first), bell between the two neutral wires, go to nearest next socket (once again check that it isn't Live) disconnect the neutrals go back to the first socket check that continuity is lost.

Hopefully that is clearer than mud

A switched fused spur on a ring can control several sockets as the maximum demand would be 13Amps (Check the back of the BRB)

 

[eddielarge]

If you want to spur off of a socket for a few extra points why dont you just break into the ring and put them on the ring ,,, SIMPLES

 

[Johno]

the reason you cannot run a radial off a ring is because just 1 cable would be liable to overload ( because 32 amps is too much, generally) but if you came off a ring and went through a 13a spur to sockets then the cable should not overload. but this is a **** way of doing things and should only be used when you KNOW the extra sockets are for low current using using equipment and even then its a last resort

 

[chris gray]

live and learn

 

[SKY]

So what one is the correct answer,

one post says one radial per ring socket is ok (no fusespur)

and

Another post says that it cannot be done??

Confused..

 

[pennywise]

Have a look at appendix 15 on page 362 of the regs book some quite good information on there.

 

[Johno]

you can spur off a socket on the ring to one more socket only

 

[eddielarge]

So what one is the correct answer,

one post says one radial per ring socket is ok (no fusespur)

and

Another post says that it cannot be done??

Confused..[/QUO

WHY CANT YOU JUST PUT EXTRA POINTS ON THE RING MAIN AND NOT BOTHER WITH SPURS

 

[Notsosmart]

Sky, don't confuse a spur for a radial; you can have one unfused spur per socket in a ring.
However if you incorporate a fused connection unit (either switched or unswitched) you can then run in several more sockets in a radial ~ as mentioned not the best way to add extra sockets & if you are going into that much effort then it would be reasonably easy to extend the ring

 

[pennywise]

Page 159, 8.2.4 of the onsite guide same as above really

 

[SKY]

So what one is the correct answer,

one post says one radial per ring socket is ok (no fusespur)

and

Another post says that it cannot be done??

Confused..[/QUO

WHY CANT YOU JUST PUT EXTRA POINTS ON THE RING MAIN AND NOT BOTHER WITH SPURS

Sir, Why the capital letters which insinuates shouting? I'm a 1st year training elec and i'm only asking a general question.
I'm only asking if its possible and is within the regs.
I'm not saying that in some cases breaking into the ring is easier, but in some installs running 1 radial socket from a ring may be easier.

If all simple questions are answered like this maybe i should find another forum for help and advise.

Thanks guys who have guided me.

 

[Johno]

you're right sometimes it's easier and you are alowed, by regs, to do it. everyday and every job is different and you have to decide whats best at the time

 

[SKY]

Thanks Johno.

Sky

 

[Spudnik]

Chaps,

Please try not to use caps when posting as this does come across as shouting, although i appreciate it is sometimes done in error.

Ta.

 

[pevvers]

One double socket unfused off of each socket in 2.5. The maximum fuse for each outlet is 13A which is why it's allowed as the maximum that's going to be drawn is 26A and even that's never gonna happen with diversity and all that malarky!

 

[Jason Smith]

There is another weapon in your armoury mate, and thats to run a radial back to the board in 2.5 on a 16-20 AMP Breaker, as many sockets as you like providing the floor area the circuit covers does not exceed 50 sq. Meters.
You will need all these "how toos " when your out on your own, and someone wants a few extra sockets etc.
Dont think anyone was shouting at you bud, just trying to get heard above all the other posts. The replies you have received show that there is more than one way of skinning a cat. You will find that the design of a building will often dictate how you do something, keep a note of the ways you can do it for the future.
My answer to your question would be that
1. 1 double socket only if a spur off a ring socket.
2. As many sockets as you like if fed from a 13 FCU.It will only allow 13 amps down it so its safe. consider design here though.
3. Radial as above on 16 -20 amp breaker.

 

[eddielarge]

Sir, Why the capital letters which insinuates shouting? I'm a 1st year training elec and i'm only asking a general question.
I'm only asking if its possible and is within the regs.
I'm not saying that in some cases breaking into the ring is easier, but in some installs running 1 radial socket from a ring may be easier.

If all simple questions are answered like this maybe i should find another forum for help and advise.

Thanks guys who have guided me.

Not shouting just left Caps lock on,,

 

[Jason Smith]

quick pointer for you sky, one socket fed off a ring is called a spur not a radial. A circuit is either a Ring or a Radial.
Keep them questions coming mate.

 

[darking]

Have a look at appendix 15 on page 362 of the regs book some quite good information on there.

Best advice on this subject pennywise Good on you mate!

quick pointer for you sky, one socket fed off a ring is called a spur not a radial. A circuit is either a Ring or a Radial.
Keep them questions coming mate.

Well said Jason!

 

[SKY]

Thank you all. can't wait to get this course completed and out of the way.

I'm really enjoying it at the moment and can't wait for the practical.

At the moment we are just doing the health and safety module 201.

 

[Bromd123]

So what one is the correct answer,

one post says one radial per ring socket is ok (no fusespur)

and

Another post says that it cannot be done??

Confused..

you should not have a radial from a ring, you can have one SPUR (ie another socket) from each socket on the ring.

A radial insinuates multiple sockets on the same circuit with no return leg to the CU

Hope this helps

 

[cornburn]

To ensure that you are connecting to a ring (and not the middle of a radial)

And what's wrong with connecting to the middle of a radial?

 

[Notsosmart]

IMO not great practice, as this is how Phantom rings get introduced.

 

[cornburn]

Not sure what you mean by phantom ring? A ring from a point on a radial circuit maybe? Every radial diagram we ever did in training had several branches, some off sockets, some off JBs and some fused down and powered over 1.5mm or 2.5mm t&e. As long as the cable at any particular point can handle the load and is protected surely it's ok? It's not always practical to only extend a radial from it's far end is it?

 

[Notsosmart]

Not sure what you mean by phantom ring? A ring from a point on a radial circuit maybe? Every radial diagram we ever did in training had several branches, some off sockets, some off JBs and some fused down and powered over 1.5mm or 2.5mm t&e. As long as the cable at any particular point can handle the load and is protected surely it's ok? It's not always practical to only extend a radial from it's far end is it?

As I said (IMO) not my personal preference, also the title of the thread is Running radial (sic) from a ring so I was taking the trainee through some tests to check for a ring.

 

[wallyanker]

Thank you all. can't wait to get this course completed and out of the way.

I'm really enjoying it at the moment and can't wait for the practical.

At the moment we are just doing the health and safety module 201.

Hi Sky

Completed my level 2, very nearly finished level 3 and 17th edition booked in for July. Don't worry about the 201 health and safety, if you apply common sense to the questions, you can;'t go wrong

I was taught that if you have a ring circuit of 10 sockets for example, then you can have 10 unfused spurs (one from each socket)

I you wanted to take a spur from a spur, then it must be a fused spur to protect the cable

Hope that helps

 

[Jason Smith]

And a radial does not have to run from socket to socket, it can be a few sockets supplied from one jb, i.e. like a spider system.

 

[timo]

If you want to spur off of a socket for a few extra points why dont you just break into the ring and put them on the ring ,,, SIMPLES

I also prefer to do this

 

[Dec]

Is it not possible to go upto 50 S/O's if each has its own FCU?

 

[SimpleSimon]

Is it not possible to go upto 50 S/O's if each has its own FCU?

Technically yes although if you mean all off one socket originating on the ring it's bad practice.
What would have to be considered here would be the maximum floor space that can be served and the Zs value at the furthest point. Maximum floor space can be found in Appendix 15.

If you mean 50 S/O as 50 individual spurs at various points in the ring than yes this could be done.