Sarnafil membrane

[Maff]

Does anyone have any contacts in the roofing industry that can purchase or knows where to get a roll of SARNAFIL membrane, we need it to go under 15 consoles on a Sarnafil flat roof. otherwise the client will jeopodise his 40 year warranty?

 

[slater147]

Hi Maff

Does it have to be Sarna. If not i use a product similar to Sarna called Fatra that i can get for you if acceptable.

 

[Maff]

I am not sure, the clients roof is less than 3 years old and when we contacted Sarnafil they said the warranty would only be valid if we used their product, but it seems you have to be trained/registered with them to buy it? Its a big roof 18 X 12 metres and we dont want to be held responsible in 12 years time if there is a leak.

 

[whlphil]

Pretty sure you wont be able to get any as it is a registered installer only product but theres plenty of them (roofers) not doing much at the moment so get Sarna's rep's number and ask him to recommend someone local.

I would be surprised if you really needed to use Sarna tho as presumably you wont be fixing (welding) to it ? usually if you are putting down a ballasted system you need a separation fleece over the existing roof then another layer of Sarna over the fleece to sit the system onto so any movement can be take up in the elements sliding against each other, as they are separated I cant see why it would need to be the same suppliers material (maybe important to use the same material type eg a TPO or PVC membrane to avoid plasticiser migration that could do damage) ask the rep's opinion most of them can see it from your point of view!

 

[Maff]

Sarnafil gave two options, 1 to heat weld another layer of sarna under the consoles, or 2 put a piece of sarna upside down underneath with the weave upwards. they stated that only sarnafil can be put against itself. but they would say that, well we have written it into a new contract with the client now,as he says to use a rubber mat because he wants this done before th 11th/12th

 

[Reggie]

Heh Maff, did you manage to source a rubber mat? We have similar situation but can't find a roofer to weld anything before deadline and we've not found an alternative yet. Thanks for any info.

 

[whlphil]

You can put a separation membrane inbetween you don't have to weld something (if your using a ballasted system), we just used a rubber layer on a Trocal PVC membrane roof, you've just got to make sure that the layer you use is compatible with the type of membrane (theres about 4 or 5 different types) so you don't get plasticiser migration from either of the materials as that will wreck the roof!

 

[Reggie]

Hi whlphil, we have somehow managed to avoid flat roofs and with everthing else going on I would happily have bumped this one but it's for a really good mate. I've attached a picture of the roof. It's only a small system - 8 x Sharp 245 across the first floor flat roof extension. I've had a structural survey, which was fine. We are using Schuco flat roof A frames which is why I need something to go between the frames and the roof. Any ideas where I can source them from? Also, the structural surveyor calculated that each frame would only need 25kg of ballast ie one concrete slab. Does this sound about right? It doesn't seem that much to me.

 

[powervan]

plasticiser migration? interesting to know ! 1 slab each i always worry about severe weather conditions and in morn clients got a new solar patio but to much weight then more problems!!! ive kept away from flat roofs but be interested to see completed job? a few pics would be good on here!! ( so my idea of 4 dobs of silicon on bottom of tubs not a good idea) lol

 

[Earthstore]

Is there enough room to mount a vertical frame on the wall of the house, and then fix the angled panel frame out from that.
You could then leave a 2" cap from the flat roof.
I hope this makes sense to you.
Tritec have such a system, I have seen it but sadly I do not have a picture for you.
hope this helps
Earthstore

 

[Earthstore]

Google it, all the answers are there....

 

[Reggie]

I have googled it, I have spoken to Roofers, Builders Merchants and even a Schuco technical bod. No-one can tell me where to get the rubber mats from. The best suggsestion I got was to weld another layer of membrane over the top but I've had zero luck trying to find someone at such short notice who can do that.
I have the Schuco frames now as well and I hope I'll never have to use them again so don't really want to fork out for a different system. Attaching frames to the wall won't work in this case unfortunately due to position of a window and location of panels.I've read the Schuco installation manual so many times I think I can remember it word for word.
If this wasn't for a mate I've returned the deposit by now but I feel like I should do my absolute best to investigate every avenue. I do appreciate everyone's thoughts and Earthstore, you are right, the answer is out there somewhere. Thanks guys. :freak:

 

[powervan]

some of these tech blokes are no good! unless they got a screen in front of them and then they get it wrong! end of day its up to U (as the norm)
ive rang wylex tech (he got it wrong) 4 hrs down the pan! danfoss (inverta man) well i dont no much about this one u just have to laugh!!

 

[whlphil]

Ballast is extremely complicated, it's very dependant on height of roof, distance in from edge of roof - usually about 25% of height above floor with a minimum of 1.5m anything over 18m is very difficult to get to work. Area of country, system manufacturers recommendations, on the ones we've done you can generally get away with 12.5kg/m2 on the whole system footprint in the centre of a roof then around the edges 30kg/m2 and usually you need extra ballast in the NE and NW corners but this has been on large systems at 10m above floor.

Plasticiser migration happens when you get two different (or one old and one new) membrane roof's in contact with each other, there's lots of different types of membrane PVC's TPO's TPE's etc and that's where the biggest problems come as they use different types or amounts of plasticiser, when in contact one draws the plasticiser out of the other it dries out and cracks. If you can get the same type it's not as much of an issue. Plus you want separation from the roof as the solar will exoand and contract and rub its way through the membrane so you want some firm of protection to the waterproofing layer.

 

[whlphil]

I've got some in Leeds you can have for what we paid for em!