Scrap Law change and waste carriage

[pyrosym]

I noticed on the news this morning that now if you want to weigh in your scrap (e.g. copper) you now need a photo ID and accept a cheque for the value minus tax or have payment into an account matching your ID via BACS. They will no longer pay cash unless you fulfill some very stringent criteria e.g. prove you are a no fixed abode rag and bone man.

The full details of the bill can be found here:

Bill stages — Scrap Metal Dealers Bill 2012-13 — UK Parliament

There is also talk about increasing the tax on scrap metal - If that is true that will definitely put some noses out of joint.

I would also recommend that you do have a waste carrier license to avoid the pitfall of being spot checked. This has happened to a fellow very recently resulting in a fine for what was essentially a small amount of household rubbish.

I understand this is to tackle scrap thieves that are damaging buildings, rail lines and other businesses but there will be a knock on effect to the trades that use these services legitimately.


Just thought I'd put it out there see what people think.

 

[telectrix]

it's a move in the right direction, but not far enough. if someone is convicted of stealing copper or other metals that put lives in danger, then there's a few lamp posts that could be decorated with swinging bodies. that would be a deterrent.

 

[Andy78]

I was of the understanding that you only needed a waste carriers licence if you carry other people's crap. If you are clearing your own waste from site then it didn't apply. Can anyone confirm or dispell this ?

 

[pyrosym]

Here are some snippets from the environment agency on it:

We do not require the carrier to register:

If they are not carrying waste as part of their business or for profit
If they are a householder carrying their own waste

so if its your own then its not a problem but if your carrying it from a job you do need to register.

We do require the carrier to register if the waste is transported for profit
within Great Britain

We do not require registration:

If the waste is being moved between different places within the same
premises

If the waste is being received directly from, or dispatched directly to,
another country (that is not Great Britain). Any subsequent or previous
movement of that waste within Great Britain would require registration.

So that definitely includes your copper xmas fund.

If you carry controlled wastes for profit within Great Britain
And you are not the waste producer you do need to register
If you are the waste producer (see definitions) you generally do not need to
register as a carrier when carrying your own waste until after the end of
December 2013. However, waste producers who are not otherwise specified
persons, do currently need to register as an upper tier carrier if the waste
they produce and carry is construction or demolition waste (see definitions).

Definitions:

under building and construction which affects most of us basically:

Any waste produced as a result of construction or demolition works, typically building infrastructure.
As registration is required for those who produce construction and demolition wastes, a definition is useful to guide what is and what is not construction and demolition.
The definition of 'construction' in the Waste (England and Wales) Regulations 2011 includes improvement, repair and alteration.
Construction and demolition may include wastes from the carrying out of any building, civil engineering or engineering construction work including:

• the construction, alteration, conversion, fitting out, commissioning, renovation, repair, upkeep, redecoration or other maintenance (including cleaning which involves the use of water or an abrasive at high pressure or the use of corrosive or toxic substances), de-commissioning, demolition or dismantling of a structure
• the preparation for an intended structure, including site clearance, exploration, investigation (but not site survey) and excavation, and the clearance or preparation of the site or structure for use or occupation at its conclusion
• the assembly on site of prefabricated elements to form a structure, or the disassembly on site of prefabricated elements which, immediately before such disassembly, formed a structure
• the removal of a structure or of any product or waste resulting from demolition or dismantling of a structure, or from disassembly of prefabricated elements which immediately before such disassembly formed such a structure
• the installation, commissioning, maintenance, repair or removal of mechanical, electrical, gas, compressed air, hydraulic, telecommunications, computer or similar services which are normally fixed within or to a structure,

Examples of construction and demolition wastes would include:

• baths
• sinks
• fences
• windows
• walls
• doors
• plasterboard
• pipe-work
• radiators
• any items that had been part of, or had been, an infrastructure
• wastes from the exploration for, or extraction of, mineral resources

Hope that helps a little.

Not the most interesting read but it is worth a mention

Here a link to the agency page on it:

http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk/static/documents/Business/Who_should_register.pdf

 

[grantr37]

I noticed on the news this morning that now if you want to weigh in your scrap (e.g. copper) you now need a photo ID and accept a cheque for the value minus tax or have payment into an account matching your ID via BACS. They will no longer pay cash unless you fulfill some very stringent criteria e.g. prove you are a no fixed abode rag and bone man.

The full details of the bill can be found here:

Bill stages — Scrap Metal Dealers Bill 2012-13 — UK Parliament

There is also talk about increasing the tax on scrap metal - If that is true that will definitely put some noses out of joint.

I would also recommend that you do have a waste carrier license to avoid the pitfall of being spot checked. This has happened to a fellow very recently resulting in a fine for what was essentially a small amount of household rubbish.

I understand this is to tackle scrap thieves that are damaging buildings, rail lines and other businesses but there will be a knock on effect to the trades that use these services legitimately.


Just thought I'd put it out there see what people think.

just dump your scrap copper in the can banks and let them sort it out

 

[grantr37]

:13: why don't they just take the scrap off of us with "local authority" skips and make us pay them for taking it as well

- - - Updated - - -

 

[Farmelectrics]

Bad news if you ask me had many a p up on scrap money another little perk gone

 

[snowhead]

The scrap is still "Free"
The difference now is someone else takes a cut from you as well, leaving you with a little less.

I wonder what rate Tax is deducted, do you need to provide your earnings for the year to show whether you're on higher rate tax?

Maybe it won't last tho';

http://www.mrw.co.uk/news/scrap-rebels-seek-cash-ban-injunction/8638424.article

 

[jumpin jax]

If you do register, how much does it cost? There has got to be a charge, this is Gt Britain

 

[pyrosym]

Register as an upper tier carrier/dealer	£154
Register as an upper tier broker/dealer	£154
Register as an upper tier carrier/broker/dealer	£154
Add a registration type to an upper tier registration	£40
Renewal of an upper tier registration	£105
Certificate copy cards (plastic, credit-card size copies of your certificate of registration)	£5
Lower tier registrations	Free

 

[pyrosym]

just to be clear electrical waste and building waste is upper tier.


QUOTE
10.1 Are you one of the following organisations?
Please tick one box only.
A waste collection authority, waste disposal authority or
waste regulation authority under Part II of the
Environmental Protection Act 1990
A voluntary organisation
A charity
None of these

10.2 If none of the above, please choose the types
of waste you will be carrying or acting as dealer
or broker for
Animal by-products
Wastes from mines and quarries
Wastes from agricultural premises
Wastes other than, or as well as, these
If you are not one of the specified organisations and you have
ticked ‘Wastes other than, or as well as, these’, you are not
eligible to register as lower tier.

It is likely that you will need to
register as upper tier. Please see the guidance that came with
this form or our website or contact us on 03708 506 506 if you
want to discuss this with us.

Us = Environment agency

 

[Darkwood]

I save copper for a few years and weigh it in, it not a regular event and i called to enquire, they say that one off events as such may not require registration but this varies depending where you are, i told them that it seems stupid to pay a licence for waste when its such a rare event, they said that if you could convince the courts so then your fine would be overturned if you were caught, with the new payment scheme for scrapyards i now have bank account proof i dont do this on a regular basis.....

Also the new laws have a massive flaw if i recall and the loophole wont be closed for a good year in that if you have no-fixed abode then payment can be made direct.....hmmmm gypo's--no fixed abode it looks like the law allows the gypsy scum to carry on robbing and stealing and getting direct payment..... the very low life that all this hype is supposed to stop is mainly excempt from the new laws...... to note may i declare from my comments that not all gypsies are scum but personally ive yet to meet one who isnt.

 

[SYKRAPS]

The way I see it is that it is still a bonus to get some money for a little bit of cleaning up. I suppose to be honest that in actual fact the scrap is the property of the owner of the building from which it is being removed and on occasion we have been asked to leave it behind as it is wanted by the owner.

 

[ruston]

it's a move in the right direction, but not far enough. if someone is convicted of stealing copper or other metals that put lives in danger, then there's a few lamp posts that could be decorated with swinging bodies. that would be a deterrent.

You would need a waste carriers licence to get them there though.

 

[Wonderwall]

If we buy cable as contractors, then cash the excess in, then we have already paid tax on it?
But if it helps stop the pikeys from robbing us all blind then it mightq be worth it

 

[Darkwood]

Strange how copper 'clean' as we use and take to the scrapyard is classed as waste as its already in its saleable form so shouldn't require a waste license as we are selling a raw product, when it needs sorting and refining like plumbers pipes 'dirty copper' then yes its scrap in my mind..... its weird how clean copper spans to cat' yet it is labled according to how the goverment can get more money for it per situation.

 

[pyrosym]

No great surprises there surely. It is worth a third more roughly as bright (depends on your scrappie I presume). It would still need to be melted down to produce a new workable material and HM gov't will grab what they can when they can. I just don't believe the new bill is really going to 'help' the situation it just makes it different.