Separating data and power in containment

[Jon Lester]

I was told today that I should install a hep2o pipe ( plastic plumbing pipe ) inside a conduit as a way of separating power and data cables . I’m not sure this is correct and am asking if anyone has any thoughts / answers on the matter ?

 

[James]

I think that if you asked the manufacturers of that pipe about its suitability for that application, they would probably tell you that is is not suitable.

 

[hasel5]

Be interesting to see an attempt

 

[Jon Lester]

This is how it looks when I trialed it . Was very hard to do and needed each data cable to be pushed down separately! Doesn’t seem very practical if it’s even correct to regulations too !

 

[littlespark]

What is this actually achieving?

The practice of separating power and data is interference on the date caused by the higher current in the power.
Mostly sorted out by the shielding in the data cable

Running power in plastic pipe within the same outer pipe makes no difference whatsoever to the effects on the data cables. Same distance away.


Use two conduits... one for power, one for data, or a designed system for power/data combined like compartmental trunking

 

[MJPD29]

Is that a piece of chrome pipe? What is actually going on here?

 

[Jon Lester]

What is this actually achieving?

The practice of separating power and data is interference on the date caused by the higher current in the power.
Mostly sorted out by the shielding in the data cable

Running power in plastic pipe within the same outer pipe makes no difference whatsoever to the effects on the data cables. Same distance away.


Use two conduits... one for power, one for data, or a designed system for power/data combined like compartmental trunking

I totally agree , this is what the maintenance electrical advisor/ operations manager advised us to use to achieve the data/power separation !

 

[Jon Lester]

Is that a piece of chrome pipe? What is actually going on here?

Yep . It’s basically a curtain pole with a water pipe inside providing power and data to a till in a shop ! Unbelievable right !

 

[Mikegh]

Seems to be a problem in general the drops to the tills

There was another poster recently with a similar problem

Probably the cost or availability of a solution i guess

 

[Mikegh]

Probably more of an issue with the smaller DIY drops ,so to speak

The bigger companies will probably have the correct containment

I forgot to look at the big supermarkets to see what they're doing

 

[Jon Lester]

Probably more of an issue with the smaller DIY drops ,so to speak

The bigger companies will probably have the correct containment

I forgot to look at the big supermarkets to see what they're doing

It’s actually a big company called fenwicks . They have about 7 stores around England . Bit like John Lewis .

 

[Jon Lester]

Seems to be a problem in general the drops to the tills

There was another poster recently with a similar problem

Probably the cost or availability of a solution i guess

I think that was my post . Totally unprofessional workmanship . Needs all ripping out and starting again . But they are just trying to bodge things up . Having plenty of disagreements with the bosses

 

[DPG]

Water pipe and chrome curtain rail is an approved installation method right? Nothing to see here. Move along.

 

[Simon47]

There are two issues to consider :

Interference. For a short run, and fairly benign loads (you don't tend to have big welders at the tills ?) it's not going to be an issue. I imagine that these days it's probably just one ethernet cable for data.

Safety. What you don't want is (e.g.) the cables getting hot, insulation softening, and your data connections getting connected to the mains. You could consider over-sleeving either the mains or data cable with a length of high-temperature sleeving and that would completely eliminate that risk without adding too much bulk.
It still leaves the risk of "a sharp object" bridging the cables, but again that's a minimal risk, especially in a metal tube.
Back when telecoms de-regulation came around, the rules for phone wiring was either a 2" separation or a solid insulating barrier between phone cables and power cables - BT would be considering mostly the safety of their guys working on the wiring, and the risk of damage to their plant.

In terms of space, you probably want a larger tube anyway, and you definitely want something where you can protect the cables from the sharp edge (notice you've shaved the white pipe ?). I've observed (yes, I'm that sort of person) that the chromed pipes they use in our local ASDA are quite large - between 2 and 3 inch.

 

[DPG]

There are two issues to consider :

Interference. For a short run, and fairly benign loads (you don't tend to have big welders at the tills ?) it's not going to be an issue. I imagine that these days it's probably just one ethernet cable for data.

Safety. What you don't want is (e.g.) the cables getting hot, insulation softening, and your data connections getting connected to the mains. You could consider over-sleeving either the mains or data cable with a length of high-temperature sleeving and that would completely eliminate that risk without adding too much bulk.
It still leaves the risk of "a sharp object" bridging the cables, but again that's a minimal risk, especially in a metal tube.
Back when telecoms de-regulation came around, the rules for phone wiring was either a 2" separation or a solid insulating barrier between phone cables and power cables - BT would be considering mostly the safety of their guys working on the wiring, and the risk of damage to their plant.

In terms of space, you probably want a larger tube anyway, and you definitely want something where you can protect the cables from the sharp edge (notice you've shaved the white pipe ?). I've observed (yes, I'm that sort of person) that the chromed pipes they use in our local ASDA are quite large - between 2 and 3 inch.

I think Simon47 has been drinking more than me.