SHOCK: Fatal or Not?

RogertheBodger

RogertheBodger

-
"Yea they kept him in overnight strapped upto CCG , they dischaged him but he has got a heart monitor strapped to him, the severity of this really surprised me considering the amount of belts we get over the year ( self inflicted )"

Pinched this from Bugsy, post 13 in thread "nearly killed" ......
He also says the guy in question got the shock off a light switch and was out for two hours before being taken to Hospital, ..... hope you don't mind Bugsy.

Severe indeed and a lucky man! When I've had a belt like that it seems like I let go so fast I've got the kettle on before the screwdriver I dropped hits the floor, faster than the RCD, put my elbow through a plasterboard wall once.

Maybe it's me thats lucky, Q. but why the difference? Why are some shocks just a reminder to be more careful yet some are fatal? ? Is it the Body's resistance, an already weak heart .......... ?
 
Sort by date Sort by votes
I would think a pre-existing health issue in the case you mentioned.
Have recieved a few shocks and much like you been ok, a very small burn was the worse i got.
If i am unsure i try to be sure that there is no way of gripping the suspect conductor, at least then if it does happen im not left gripping it.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Used to know a Guy, professional Rugby league player, won't mention his name, He was a Sparky, killed outright by Electric Shock on the Channel Tunnel, Admit I don't know what voltage was Involved but a big strong fit guy like that? Makes you wonder, always remembered that and thought, if it could happen to him .....
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Below is an extract from an exicutoin.

However foolproof the electric chair may appear, it has still had a few quirks. As recently as 1982, John Louis Evans was shocked for 30*seconds before the electrode on his leg broke. A minute later smoke was seen coming from his mouth and his left leg. It wasn't until a third dose, and ten minutes later, that he was pronounced dead. At the end of the electrocution, the temperature of the electrode was that of a hot bath, around 50*°C, leading the operators to believe that the voltage was too low for this particular individual. From experience, doctors believe that certain people have a better tolerance to high voltage than others.


Some people can survive and most people don't. That shock was at 2000 V. I believe they give three lots of shocks in sequence, first to the brain, then the hart and finish off with the torso to ensure internal organs no longer work. If I was on death row in the states I think I'd rather have a bullet in the head.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
paul.m said:
Below is an extract from an exicutoin.

However foolproof the electric chair may appear, it has still had a few quirks. As recently as 1982, John Louis Evans was shocked for 30*seconds before the electrode on his leg broke. A minute later smoke was seen coming from his mouth and his left leg. It wasn't until a third dose, and ten minutes later, that he was pronounced dead. At the end of the electrocution, the temperature of the electrode was that of a hot bath, around 50*°C, leading the operators to believe that the voltage was too low for this particular individual. From experience, doctors believe that certain people have a better tolerance to high voltage than others.


Some people can survive and most people don't. That shock was at 2000 V. I believe they give three lots of shocks in sequence, first to the brain, then the hart and finish off with the torso to ensure internal organs no longer work. If I was on death row in the states I think I'd rather have a bullet in the head.
Click to expand...

Me too Paul, sounds like 'The Green Mile' did you see that Film? God what an awful way to go.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
and what about the electrician sentenced to death in the chair. they strapped him in and threw the switch. nothing happened. then the electrician piped up " if you switch the bloody main isolator on, then maybe the damn thing will work
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
As has been said, it all depends on how 'earthed' you are. Most of the time you will have boots or shoes on, and even when you're on your knees you should have kneepads on or be on carpet or whatever. Dampness will increase the problem, and don't rely on your boots - you never know if you've got a nail in them lol. And don't think that you won't feel anything if you've got decent boots on and aren't earthed, because you do, and it bloody hurts!

At the end of the day, it really depends if the easiest path to earth is through your heart (or brain) - a lot of folks I gew up with stick one hand in their back pocket or a thumb in a belt loop if working live, the theory being your second arm may give a better path to earth if you get a shock, and the current may bypass your heart - not something I personally would rely on!

The worst types are when you have line in one hand and neutral or earth in the other - that one is straight across your chest, you don't need to be earthed at all, and it really hurts. This one can be really bad news, and I'd imagine this is the way a lot of people go. Maybe another reason you have your hand in your pocket - so you don't go grabbing something you shouldn't, but I'm still not convinced.

Sometimes you just get a bit of a bite and are able to snatch your hand away quickly. A lot of them, though, you get stuck, can't pull your hand away, the mind fills with panic, it's all a bit of a blur...... sometimes it lets you go and sometimes, I guess, it doesn't.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
rocker said:
Sometimes you just get a bit of a bite and are able to snatch your hand away quickly. A lot of them, though, you get stuck, can't pull your hand away, the mind fills with panic, it's all a bit of a blur...... sometimes it lets you go and sometimes, I guess, it doesn't.
Click to expand...

Interesting you should say that Rocker because I have heard it many times, and never understood how it could be, perhaps a severe shock like L-N could make your muscles contract so you can't let go? or you are caught in a confined space with electrical equipment.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Your resistance, affected by various factors, including how well earthed you are, affects the size of the current that flows through you. The size of the current that flows through you produces different reponses in your body. 10-20mA can produce the "can't let go response" whereas a smaller current can still be a nasty belt but will produce a jump-back type of response.

The route that the current takes through your body is also very important. Eg if your finger touched a live and your knuckle (of the same finger) was touching a metal casing that will give a completely different effect to the the finger of one hand touching a live and your other hand touching an earth. In the second case the route of the current could be across the heart with a much greater chance of a fatality rather than just a nasty burn of the first case.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Upvote 0 Downvote
RogertheBodger said:
Used to know a Guy, professional Rugby league player, won't mention his name, He was a Sparky, killed outright by Electric Shock on the Channel Tunnel, Admit I don't know what voltage was Involved but a big strong fit guy like that? Makes you wonder, always remembered that and thought, if it could happen to him .....
Click to expand...

Mate, I love the name... But please don't tell me that you trade under it please. LOL
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
I saw a van the other day which was sign-written. I won't mention their name but the details followed like this...............

"Youve tried the cowboys, now try the indians".

It made me grin.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
RogertheBodger said:
Interesting you should say that Rocker because I have heard it many times, and never understood how it could be, perhaps a severe shock like L-N could make your muscles contract so you can't let go? or you are caught in a confined space with electrical equipment.
Click to expand...

That's exactly it, mate. The more current you pass through a muscle, the more it will 'tense up'. There is a current, I believe it's about 10mA, above which you will not be able to control your muscle, i.e. you can't let go. If you were to get one of them electrical pad things your missus has got to tone up her tummy and strap it to you and your mate's arms and then try and play Mortal Kombat on the Megadrive, apart from being hilarious, you won't be able to control your muscles in your hands and arms - this is a very 'safe' current, so imagine the problems you'd get when hooked up to 230 or God forbid three phase!
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Another silly but true fact when i was an apprentice we were in a loft space , the type that went across all the houses in say a row of 6 houses. They all had TV aerials in the lofts ( ie not outside) the bloke that was looking after me told me this. If the tv downstairs has been wired up wrong way round ie live chasis this will make the TV Aerials live (True) but here is the gem he says to check it touch them with the backs of your fingers........that way when you muscles contract you will automaticaly be disconected as such, but if you do it on palm side of fingers (Sounds wrong but you know what i mean ) as muscles contract you will grab on tighter. Makes sense i suppose but dont recommend it as a live test LOL.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
mayfair said:
Another silly but true fact when i was an apprentice we were in a loft space , the type that went across all the houses in say a row of 6 houses. They all had TV aerials in the lofts ( ie not outside) the bloke that was looking after me told me this. If the tv downstairs has been wired up wrong way round ie live chasis this will make the TV Aerials live (True) but here is the gem he says to check it touch them with the backs of your fingers........that way when you muscles contract you will automaticaly be disconected as such, but if you do it on palm side of fingers (Sounds wrong but you know what i mean ) as muscles contract you will grab on tighter. Makes sense i suppose but dont recommend it as a live test LOL.
Click to expand...

That's apparently the 'theory' behind the old 'tongue test', if the tongue muscles tense up the tongue shoots back into the mouth. I ain't willing to test it, and if you're that curious you probably deserve everything you get lol!
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
I know 2 people who died of electric shocks one was an electrician who contacted a bus bar in an LV panel, it threw him but he died on the scene. The other worked for MacDonalds and got a shock whilst cleaning an oil filtering pump.

There's so many variables involved, you can walk away from relatively big shocks that knock you flat and give you third degree burns but you can also die from a relatively minor shock two days after the fact because it set up a heart arrhythmia.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
rocker said:
That's apparently the 'theory' behind the old 'tongue test', if the tongue muscles tense up the tongue shoots back into the mouth. I ain't willing to test it, and if you're that curious you probably deserve everything you get lol!
Click to expand...

Might keep the Apprentice from wittering on though?
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Marvo said:
I know 2 people who died of electric shocks one was an electrician who contacted a bus bar in an LV panel, it threw him but he died on the scene. The other worked for MacDonalds and got a shock whilst cleaning an oil filtering pump.

There's so many variables involved, you can walk away from relatively big shocks that knock you flat and give you third degree burns but you can also die from a relatively minor shock two days after the fact because it set up a heart arrhythmia.
Click to expand...

That's true, my old gaffer worked with someone back in the 80s who got a belt but didn't think much of it, six days later he died and apparently it was because that belt put his heart out of whack.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Actually I spoke to the guy again tonight , he showed me a burn at the tip of his middle index finger and a deep red mark running from that to the palm of his hand
bit of wake up call
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
rocker said:
That's true, my old gaffer worked with someone back in the 80s who got a belt but didn't think much of it, six days later he died and apparently it was because that belt put his heart out of whack.
Click to expand...

spot on rocker,i got a slight belt a couple of years ago,enough to shout 'ouch ya basser' reported it to h&s dept at work,they said go to hospital as its the next 24 hrs the problems can start..never slept for 2 nights for worry..
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
bugsy said:
Actually I spoke to the guy again tonight , he showed me a burn at the tip of his middle index finger and a deep red mark running from that to the palm of his hand
bit of wake up call
Click to expand...

Hope he's OK now.
It is a wake up call Bugsy, all this is very sobering information, and thank you all for your posts, how easy it is to get complacent because we work wih electricity every day, just shows what can happen if you take your eye off the ball for even a second!
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
1ma to 2ma no harmful effects ,5ma to 10ma trow off painful sensation,10 to 15ma muscular contraction cant let go,20ma to 30ma impaired breathing,50ma and above ventricular fibrilation and death , so when we say go and get checked out after a shock you can see why
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Never nice a shock, but the guy who trained me , was the wet tongue brigade. I think over the years he must have either A built up a resistance to the shock part, or B his fingers were so knarled it never affected him, but he took great delight in telling a young apprentice it's ok son that's dead by touching a cable or accessory, and you would start to work on it and he would stop you, and say that's live, and it was. The moral for him was never take anyones word for it, always test yourself. It never stopped some of the more stupid apprentices for seeing if they could touch a live cable.........yes I was one.

What always gets me are bus bars, when you open a live chamber, and see all the lovely shiney copper, I just want to touch it lol .........
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
nickblake said:
1ma to 2ma no harmful effects ,5ma to 10ma trow off painful sensation,10 to 15ma muscular contraction cant let go,20ma to 30ma impaired breathing,50ma and above ventricular fibrilation and death , so when we say go and get checked out after a shock you can see why
Click to expand...

I haven't heard this before Nick, is it public information, in the Regs? should be essential information for all Sparkies
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
malcolmsanford said:
Never nice a shock, but the guy who trained me , was the wet tongue brigade. I think over the years he must have either A built up a resistance to the shock part, or B his fingers were so knarled it never affected him, but he took great delight in telling a young apprentice it's ok son that's dead by touching a cable or accessory, and you would start to work on it and he would stop you, and say that's live, and it was. The moral for him was never take anyones word for it, always test yourself. It never stopped some of the more stupid apprentices for seeing if they could touch a live cable.........yes I was one.

What always gets me are bus bars, when you open a live chamber, and see all the lovely shiney copper, I just want to touch it lol .........
Click to expand...

I was one too! first day at college, simple lighting circuit, wonder what it feels like? well, you just have to know don't you.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
One of the side effects of all this is, being an electrician for over 30 years with many shocks over the years, many small but some not so, every time I get even the smallest tingle I jump a mile and let go of whatever I have in my hand at the time.
Now although this is a good self protection mechanism, I sometimes look silly when I get a tingle from, say, a phone line and jump as if I've taken 1000v across my ********, then the painter touches it and wonders what all the fuss is about.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
andyb said:
One of the side effects of all this is, being an electrician for over 30 years with many shocks over the years, many small but some not so, every time I get even the smallest tingle I jump a mile and let go of whatever I have in my hand at the time.
Now although this is a good self protection mechanism, I sometimes look silly when I get a tingle from, say, a phone line and jump as if I've taken 1000v across my ********, then the painter touches it and wonders what all the fuss is about.
Click to expand...

Thats me to a T
 
Upvote 0 Downvote

OFFICIAL SPONSORS

Electrical Goods - Electrical Tools - Brand Names Electrician Courses Green Electrical Goods PCB Way Green 2 Go Pushfit Wire Connectors Electric Underfloor Heating Electrician Courses Heating 2 Go Electrician Workwear Supplier
These Official Forum Sponsors May Provide Discounts to Regular Forum Members - If you would like to sponsor us then CLICK HERE and post a thread with who you are, and we'll send you some stats etc

Advert

YOUR Unread Posts

Daily, weekly or monthly email

Receive a daily, weekly, or monthly email containing a digest of new and recently updated threads.

Thread starter

RogertheBodger

RogertheBodger

-
Joined
Location
Spain

Thread Information

Title
SHOCK: Fatal or Not?
Prefix
N/A
Forum
Australia
Start date
Last reply date
Replies
35
Unsolved
--

Thread Tags

Tags Tags
aus electricians' talk shock

Advert

Thread statistics

Created
RogertheBodger,
Last reply from
nickblake,
Replies
35
Views
3,483

Advert

TrueNAS JBOD Storage Server

Tilers | UK Tiling Forum | Tilers Forums | Find a Tiler
UK Tiling Forum by Tilers Forums UK
Plumbers Forums | Plumbing Advice | Gas Forum
Outside Play
Back
Top