SHOCK: Fatal or Not?

[RogertheBodger]

"Yea they kept him in overnight strapped upto CCG , they dischaged him but he has got a heart monitor strapped to him, the severity of this really surprised me considering the amount of belts we get over the year ( self inflicted )"

Pinched this from Bugsy, post 13 in thread "nearly killed" ......
He also says the guy in question got the shock off a light switch and was out for two hours before being taken to Hospital, ..... hope you don't mind Bugsy.

Severe indeed and a lucky man! When I've had a belt like that it seems like I let go so fast I've got the kettle on before the screwdriver I dropped hits the floor, faster than the RCD, put my elbow through a plasterboard wall once.

Maybe it's me thats lucky, Q. but why the difference? Why are some shocks just a reminder to be more careful yet some are fatal? ? Is it the Body's resistance, an already weak heart .......... ?

 

[SMB]

I saw a van the other day which was sign-written. I won't mention their name but the details followed like this...............

"Youve tried the cowboys, now try the indians".

It made me grin.

 

[RogertheBodger]

Mate, I love the name... But please don't tell me that you trade under it please. LOL

You think thats maybe why my phone never rings Ken?

 

[rocker]

Interesting you should say that Rocker because I have heard it many times, and never understood how it could be, perhaps a severe shock like L-N could make your muscles contract so you can't let go? or you are caught in a confined space with electrical equipment.

That's exactly it, mate. The more current you pass through a muscle, the more it will 'tense up'. There is a current, I believe it's about 10mA, above which you will not be able to control your muscle, i.e. you can't let go. If you were to get one of them electrical pad things your missus has got to tone up her tummy and strap it to you and your mate's arms and then try and play Mortal Kombat on the Megadrive, apart from being hilarious, you won't be able to control your muscles in your hands and arms - this is a very 'safe' current, so imagine the problems you'd get when hooked up to 230 or God forbid three phase!

 

[mayfair]

Another silly but true fact when i was an apprentice we were in a loft space , the type that went across all the houses in say a row of 6 houses. They all had TV aerials in the lofts ( ie not outside) the bloke that was looking after me told me this. If the tv downstairs has been wired up wrong way round ie live chasis this will make the TV Aerials live (True) but here is the gem he says to check it touch them with the backs of your fingers........that way when you muscles contract you will automaticaly be disconected as such, but if you do it on palm side of fingers (Sounds wrong but you know what i mean ) as muscles contract you will grab on tighter. Makes sense i suppose but dont recommend it as a live test LOL.

 

[rocker]

Another silly but true fact when i was an apprentice we were in a loft space , the type that went across all the houses in say a row of 6 houses. They all had TV aerials in the lofts ( ie not outside) the bloke that was looking after me told me this. If the tv downstairs has been wired up wrong way round ie live chasis this will make the TV Aerials live (True) but here is the gem he says to check it touch them with the backs of your fingers........that way when you muscles contract you will automaticaly be disconected as such, but if you do it on palm side of fingers (Sounds wrong but you know what i mean ) as muscles contract you will grab on tighter. Makes sense i suppose but dont recommend it as a live test LOL.

That's apparently the 'theory' behind the old 'tongue test', if the tongue muscles tense up the tongue shoots back into the mouth. I ain't willing to test it, and if you're that curious you probably deserve everything you get lol!

 

[Marvo]

I know 2 people who died of electric shocks one was an electrician who contacted a bus bar in an LV panel, it threw him but he died on the scene. The other worked for MacDonalds and got a shock whilst cleaning an oil filtering pump.

There's so many variables involved, you can walk away from relatively big shocks that knock you flat and give you third degree burns but you can also die from a relatively minor shock two days after the fact because it set up a heart arrhythmia.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

That's apparently the 'theory' behind the old 'tongue test', if the tongue muscles tense up the tongue shoots back into the mouth. I ain't willing to test it, and if you're that curious you probably deserve everything you get lol!

Might keep the Apprentice from wittering on though?

 

[rocker]

I know 2 people who died of electric shocks one was an electrician who contacted a bus bar in an LV panel, it threw him but he died on the scene. The other worked for MacDonalds and got a shock whilst cleaning an oil filtering pump.

There's so many variables involved, you can walk away from relatively big shocks that knock you flat and give you third degree burns but you can also die from a relatively minor shock two days after the fact because it set up a heart arrhythmia.

That's true, my old gaffer worked with someone back in the 80s who got a belt but didn't think much of it, six days later he died and apparently it was because that belt put his heart out of whack.

 

[bugsy]

Actually I spoke to the guy again tonight , he showed me a burn at the tip of his middle index finger and a deep red mark running from that to the palm of his hand
bit of wake up call

 

[alarm man]

That's true, my old gaffer worked with someone back in the 80s who got a belt but didn't think much of it, six days later he died and apparently it was because that belt put his heart out of whack.

spot on rocker,i got a slight belt a couple of years ago,enough to shout 'ouch ya basser' reported it to h&s dept at work,they said go to hospital as its the next 24 hrs the problems can start..never slept for 2 nights for worry..

 

[RogertheBodger]

Actually I spoke to the guy again tonight , he showed me a burn at the tip of his middle index finger and a deep red mark running from that to the palm of his hand
bit of wake up call

Hope he's OK now.
It is a wake up call Bugsy, all this is very sobering information, and thank you all for your posts, how easy it is to get complacent because we work wih electricity every day, just shows what can happen if you take your eye off the ball for even a second!

 

[nickblake]

1ma to 2ma no harmful effects ,5ma to 10ma trow off painful sensation,10 to 15ma muscular contraction cant let go,20ma to 30ma impaired breathing,50ma and above ventricular fibrilation and death , so when we say go and get checked out after a shock you can see why

 

[malcolmsanford]

Never nice a shock, but the guy who trained me , was the wet tongue brigade. I think over the years he must have either A built up a resistance to the shock part, or B his fingers were so knarled it never affected him, but he took great delight in telling a young apprentice it's ok son that's dead by touching a cable or accessory, and you would start to work on it and he would stop you, and say that's live, and it was. The moral for him was never take anyones word for it, always test yourself. It never stopped some of the more stupid apprentices for seeing if they could touch a live cable.........yes I was one.

What always gets me are bus bars, when you open a live chamber, and see all the lovely shiney copper, I just want to touch it lol .........

 

[RogertheBodger]

1ma to 2ma no harmful effects ,5ma to 10ma trow off painful sensation,10 to 15ma muscular contraction cant let go,20ma to 30ma impaired breathing,50ma and above ventricular fibrilation and death , so when we say go and get checked out after a shock you can see why

I haven't heard this before Nick, is it public information, in the Regs? should be essential information for all Sparkies

 

[RogertheBodger]

Never nice a shock, but the guy who trained me , was the wet tongue brigade. I think over the years he must have either A built up a resistance to the shock part, or B his fingers were so knarled it never affected him, but he took great delight in telling a young apprentice it's ok son that's dead by touching a cable or accessory, and you would start to work on it and he would stop you, and say that's live, and it was. The moral for him was never take anyones word for it, always test yourself. It never stopped some of the more stupid apprentices for seeing if they could touch a live cable.........yes I was one.

What always gets me are bus bars, when you open a live chamber, and see all the lovely shiney copper, I just want to touch it lol .........

I was one too! first day at college, simple lighting circuit, wonder what it feels like? well, you just have to know don't you.