Shocking

[Romans99]

So,
Im at an office building out of hours yesterday morning, 2 rooms with lights not working.
DB not labeled up at all!!

Fittings are all on plug in ceiling roses, i remove one thinking im gonna test at the rose, then -

My wrists are shaking like a teenager reading Playboy.

Im getting a shock here........

But why?..................

forget that, just let go............

brain tells hands to let go but hands dont want to,

eventually i let go and fall off my steps

suspended ceiling grid was snapped, my steps fell and i was rather annoyed.

i suffered burns on both hands and knackered my calf muscle, not sure if this was a muscular contraction or my landing after the fall.

So they take me to hospital, and someone else from my company goes to figure it out.

I spoke to him later and he said it was a borrowed neutral for another lighting circuit.
As soon as i touched the plug in rose it got me.

So, im sure some of you have had bad shocks and will understand that this one hurt. A lot.

When these things happen, it worries you and brings back a level of caution you probably hadnt had for a while, so i thought id ask a couple of questions.

1. How could i have known about this borrowed neutral
2. How many of you would have unplugged the plug in and expected it to be live??

im gonna be off work for a bit, leg is killing me.

 

[Darkwood]

Exactly what touched you to get the shock was it a floating unterminated cable from a flex did you actually get into the wiring joint before receiving the shock.... i thought the plug in units were plastic and insulating in themselves, and answer to your question' how are you meant to know if its live' well may i state the obvious ALWAYS FOLLOW TEST PROCEDURES TO CONFIRM NO POWER! before working on something.The borrowed neutral is sometimes a bitch and whenever you split neutrals apart always test each one again to check you havent broken the return for another load or circuit, especially when on lighting.
In answer to your second question i got a big slammer putting a pushfit blank into the lid of a 3ph board it was been stubborn so a little extra pressure made it snap sending my hand into the awaiting 400v live pins, it left a tiny hole from the end of my finger to the side you could blow air through and a chest burn on my chest where the ladders were pressed, suppose i was lucky with regards to the chest burn in relation to my bloody heart but it was 20yrs ago when metal steps were used and 3phase boards were crap and dangerous all round with regards to modern versions.

 

[ian.settle1]

Sorry to here that, be ready for a knock on the door from the HSE as they will be involved as it will be classified as a RIDDOR incident.

 

[baldsparkies]

Many years back I had the same thing from a plug in. I was lucky, just got an unpleasant tingle down the arm.
I try not to take anything for granted now days, its a dangerous trade and will get you the minute you become complaicent.
I know sparkys are often under pressure to get the job done pronto, but never forget its your life your gambling when you dont follow procedure, never Assume because it makes an --- out of U and ME.
Very best wishes for a speedy recovery,take care.

 

[bugsy]

I seen some nightmare installation 'adaptions' mostly by maintenance engineers ( I know 90% of are O'K' so don't get offended) flex's pulled out the back of bessa boxes, em permanant feeds taken from adjancent circuit etc etc trouble is doing the job year in out you tend to forgat ( or get complacent ) about the fundelmentles - someone is in for a bo***king
Let's you not off for too long

 

[Romans99]

it was one of these

I unplugged it and intended to test for 230v at the rose but as i went to rest the plug down onto the ceiling, i have touched the pins and got a nasty shock

Really wouldnt expect that plug to be live, would you???

Turns out the office used to be open plan but has been split into 3 or 4 seperate offices with their own light switch. Neutrals have been borrowed.

Has anyone ever heard of this happening in such an environment? i know the domestic upstairs/downstairs light switching is typically where you would find this but a large office building less than ten years old??

 

[bugsy]

Bet you any money the elec's were adapted by the partion company by there in house ( I know a bit about ) electrics division

 

[Spudnik]

How the hell can the plug be live when its an insulated part??

 

[bugsy]

I assume they took a neutral from an adjacent circuit and wired it into the fitting - might be wrong but can't see any other way - I think ha touched the pins not the cover

 

[Romans99]

That's right.

Yes I did touch the pins.
Not deliberatley but I didn't avoid them because I had just unplugged it so the plug wouldn't be live would it.

How many times have you unplugged one of those?

Ruined my week I can tell you!

 

[Darkwood]

There is another side to this, if it only fed one light then you got a shock from the capacitor inside which has more chance of hurting you from the fall than the shock but if the load was looped to other loads/fittings then its plausable you got a borrowed neutral shock if not a live feed/sw shock as someone could have used this fitting to supply others and obviously when unplugged you would still have live pins as its looping from the plug and not into it.
Unfortunately these are the things we cant take for granted plug receive power but unless you wired it yourself dont assume.

 

[Jason Smith]

Hope your alright mate !!- my trainer said to me a shock will keep you safe forever because you will never not test again !! My fluke volt. pen issues two beeps when it switches off, which gives me a concentration reminder. My bad shock was decommisioning a bathroom lighting circuit, the circuit was dead, the lights and wire were in a bin liner. I disconnected the pull cord and un did the terminals, mate in the loft said ok pull it. I did, and the cable started to come out. Ideal. mate in loft shouted again, I said I am," its come a foot". So I grabbed it and pulled. As I was sliding down the bathroom wall, I wondered what the F had happened. Luckily fiberglas steps, shock between live and neutral only went through my hand.
Someone had wired into the ring, and used the bathroom pull cord to supply the outside extension lead that obviously Fed a lawnmower or something.
Firstly, all the evidence was there. I failed to notice it was 2.5. I did not test it as I believed the whole circuit was dead. It was no ones fault but my own. Ok this one I put down as a human error with reasonable excuses. Tester comes out on everything now unless I can see both ends of the wire all through its length !!

 

[Brian Boyd]

When i was in my 1st year apprenticeship the guy i worked for was bit of an animal with money the only motivation. We were puttting under cupboard lights in which had been left above units in a ceiling rose and in his hurry he just flicked it off at the switch to tie in, the problem being they were 2 wayed and he got a right lift.

We all know about verifying circuit is dead but in unusual cases like pins of plug in ceiling rose being live the most experienced man could get caught out. Its more proof of need for proper guidelines for electrical installations and try to stop sub standard work by the unqualified!

 

[pennywise]

Had one once were I was up 5-6m on ladders taking the cover off a surface pattrice, it was a plastic blanking plate I though, no break out points etc, I was also holding onto a stairwell hand rail that the ladder was leaning next to undoing the 3.5 screws one handed got one out then got the other one to the point where you decide to do the last few threads by hand, reached up and got a belt off it across the heart to the handrail anyway after much colorful language took the cover off after we found the breaker turned out it was a flex outlet and they had put the live conductor in the earth terminal and so had livened up the brass ring on one side of the plate. Sorry to hear about the leg is your company big enough for sick leave etc .