Should Scotland be allowed another referendum and do you think parliament has a right to deny it?

[baldelectrician]

I am not putting words in to peoples mouths, it's the language such as
'allowing the Scots to have a referendum'

Instead of supporting people to have democracy- remeber the Scottish Parliament is vastly more proportional than Westminster
Boris got elected on a lower % of the vote and a lower % of the seats than the SNP did in Scotland yet he has a mandate but the SNP don't

As I said earlier (on another thread) the UK government keep changing the goal posts about when and if Scotland can decide her own fate.

I am sorry if it comes across as anti-English, it is most certainly NOT.

 

[Baddegg]

@baldelectrician you did state you were anti English, bit harsh but there you go......as for the House of Lords I doubt you’d get much argument against abolishing it down here

 

[DPG]

I can't be bothered with this. You seem like a very bitter individual, and certainly nothing like the Scottish people I know and who I have worked with.

 

[Baddegg]

So what is your reasoning for ignoring the fisrt referendum?....I can’t be just because a politician told a fib surely?......you seem well read and and level headed, little bit obsessed maybe but...you can’t honestly believe any campaign for or against a referendum will be any different next time?

 

[baldelectrician]

It’s OUR country, all of ours.....United Kingdom what affects one affects all......ok ask for a vote poor choice of words on my behalf fueling your fire but I’m sure you understood what I meant mate ?

I understand where you come from, but my point is ,
The Scottish Parliament is democratically elected on a quasi PR system - if it decides to hold a referendum who has the right to block it and why.
Is it up to people other than the Scottish voters (through the Scottish Parliament) to decide their own future? or are they subservient till the end of time?

 

[Baddegg]

I understand where you come from, but my point is ,
The Scottish Parliament is democratically elected on a quasi PR system - if it decides to hold a referendum who has the right to block it and why.
Is it up to people other than the Scottish voters (through the Scottish Parliament) to decide their own future? or are they subservient till the end of time?

So how would you feel/react if you lost another referendum?....be honest!....where does it stop?, and let’s not forget how from an economic point of view at least how destabilising referendums are....uncertainty frightens investors and that’s what you’ve got uncertainty in the future, if frankie gets it across the line there’s no real guarantee that Europe will welcome Scotland with open arms, does it need another dependant?....will there even be an EU? I know you’ll scoff but it’s a possibility and I’m not arrogant enough to suggest that just because the United Kingdom chose to leave, it’s been failing for years,

 

[baldelectrician]

So what is your reasoning for ignoring the fisrt referendum?....I can’t be just because a politician told a fib surely?......

Quite simple:
“When facts change, I change my mind,” John Maynard Keynes famously said

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. These words are usually credited to the acclaimed genius Albert Einstein

Scotland has voted Labour for decades and we seem surprised to get a tory government.
The point of independence is no more Tory governments in Scotland and running our own affairs

A corner pillar of the last referendum was that Scots were told to vote NO was a guarantee of staying in the EU

https://twitter.com/x/status/1133011149803393024

My neighbour is Polish and his wife is German, they both live here, obey the law and pay taxes.
He voted NO in the last Scottish independence referendum, his wife did not vote then.
They would both vote to now be in the EU (as things stand a hard Brexit is on the cards and there is NO chance of Scotland being in the EU, with #IndyRef2 we have a better than average chance)

There are about 40,000 voters passing on in Scotland each year, most of these that pass on are older and predominately NO voters to #IndyRef2
The younger ones are predominately YES (over 60%) so the longer it is between votes the higher the propensity of a YES vote.

Add that to the 180,000 or so EU nationals in Scotland who either did not vote last time or voted NO then you can see why Westmonster is getting a squeaky bum.
If Boris thought that NO would win he would call Nicola's bluff and 'let us choose'

 

[Baddegg]

Don’t forget Boris has to take every body into account....I understand you clearly hate the tories, would rather be a one party state?, dangerous territory that...you seem to have ignored my questions regarding instability and the eu???

 

[baldelectrician]

So how would you feel/react if you lost another referendum?....be honest!....where does it stop?, and let’s not forget how from an economic point of view at least how destabilising referendums are....uncertainty frightens investors and that’s what you’ve got uncertainty in the future, if frankie gets it across the line there’s no real guarantee that Europe will welcome Scotland with open arms, does it need another dependant?....will there even be an EU? I know you’ll scoff but it’s a possibility and I’m not arrogant enough to suggest that just because the United Kingdom chose to leave, it’s been failing for years,

The EU is a side issue for me
I want independence and honestly believe that if we were bleeding the UK dry (as they suggest) the Tories would drop us like a hot potato

Why force someone to stay in a marriage that does not want to be there, not much of a partnership of equals

You seem to be forgetting Nicola is a means to an end- once we get independence the SNP will disappear like snow off a dry stone wall.

 

[Baddegg]

The EU is a side issue for me
I want independence and honestly believe that if we were bleeding the UK dry (as they suggest) the Tories would drop us like a hot potato

Why force someone to stay in a marriage that does not want to be there, not much of a partnership of equals

You seem to be forgetting Nicola is a means to an end- once we get independence the SNP will disappear like snow off a dry stone wall.

C’mon I only target Nicola because it’s easy to do so!...lazy of me I know but I like a laugh...I believe the great billy connelly coined the greatest phrase in politics....”anybody who wants to be a politician should automatically be barred from being one!” Or words to that affect ?......I’ve heard you argue the bleeding dry case before, where are you referring that from?......I’m also a bit disappointed in the present climate that anyone of your clearly educated mind would hate or detest anyone that badly purely for a different set of ideals or beliefs...I dint want Scotland to leave but would be the first to shake yours of frankies hand should you succeed in a fair and democratic way......now c’mon what would you say to all the voters that are concerned for Scotland’s economic stability should frankie succeed??

 

[baldelectrician]

See - needing to ask for permission to have a decision for your country, stay in your place. I am most certainly anti English, when we did family holidays we went to Torbay as the weather is decidedly warmer and I prefer to stay in the British Isles. When we are independent I will prefer to holiday here as well. The democratically elected Scottish Parliament should have the right to decide when and if a vote tom leave the UK is held Simple as that.

Just read my thread and cannot believe what I typed, CORRECT VERSION BELOW
please accept my apologies.

See - needing to ask for permission to have a decision for your country, stay in your place.
I am most certainly NOT anti English, when we did family holidays we went to Torbay as the weather is decidedly warmer and I prefer to stay in the British Isles. When we are independent I will prefer to holiday here as well.
The democratically elected Scottish Parliament should have the right to decide when and if a vote to leave the UK is held Simple as that.

 

[Baddegg]

Are you sure you’re not a politician @baldelectrician?....you’ve dodged,avoided and evaded more questions than a Tory minister on a Sunday morning BBC politics show! ?

 

[baldelectrician]

Definitely not a politician, chose not to even think about standing as I am not a robot and openly disagree on some SNP policies.

Here's a politician from Ireland getting involved in the mix

 

[Baddegg]

As before mate, what would you say to a Scottish voter who was fretting over the financial implications of leaving?.....what is Scotland’s proposal for the vast eu sums she’ll need to find?, and what happen if, and it’s a genuine possibility, the remainder of the uk decide that they don’t fancy Scotland having the pound as a new and uncertain entity there’s a strong possibility of devaluation of the currency?......What would Nicola say to that?......I’m also a bit concerned that you want the abolition of the Tory party and by your own admission the SNP will be dropped as a political entity for being useless,essentially leaving Scotland with the Labour Party, more and more a socialist party these days....

 

[baldelectrician]

As before mate, what would you say to a Scottish voter who was fretting over the financial implications of leaving?
Scotland is financially better off than the whole of the UK, Scottish GDP is ESTIMATED not calculated as most of the items used are calculated on a per capita basis, not an actual basis.

.....what is Scotland’s proposal for the vast eu sums she’ll need to find?
This is only if Scotland decides to join the Euro, the only way to join the Euro is to join the ERM - joining the ERM is entirely voluntry

and what happen if, and it’s a genuine possibility, the remainder of the uk decide that they don’t fancy Scotland having the pound
It's not up to the UK who uses Sterling, the UK can prevent Scotland from using the Bank of England as lender of last resort.
Scotland will set up their own Scottish £ and peg it to Sterling in the initial years (like the Republic of Ireland did with the Punt)

as a new and uncertain entity there’s a strong possibility of devaluation of the currency?
Scotland is a net exporter of goods

.....What would Nicola say to that?..
Not up to her, up to the Scottish Parliament and who the Scots elect as First Minister

....I’m also a bit concerned that you want the abolition of the Tory party
No, in an independent Scotland there will be Tories, Lib Dems, Labour etc the difference is that the parties will have separate headquarters based in Scotland who will not be controlled using a London and South East agenda

and by your own admission the SNP will be dropped as a political entity
Politics will realign in Scotland - more like the rest of Europe, coalitions will be the norm- no single large party with full control (better for democracy)

See comments above in red