Shower RCD/ELCB

[pdlaw]

Hi All

I've read quite a few posts and wonder if I can ask some advise please?.

My father only has a bath in his house and being elderly has trouble getting out of it when he's sat down..

So I've purchased a an electric shower for him. 10.5kw.

The Consumer Unit in the house is a Proteus Centaur 80/2/30 which has a master cut off switch described as an ELCB. There is a button next to it which trips it, and I use this for diabling the electricity when changing bulbs etc. To get the electrcity back again you need to turn the switch, which is a little like a dial, clockwise.

The shower needs an RCD (as you'll all know better than I do!)...which the manuals says can be part of the consumer unit or seperate.

I plan to wire the shower to a pull cord not accessible while taking a shower itself, then route the cable to the main CU downstairs.

At this point I would call in an electrican to fit the wiring to the CU with a 45amp MCB.

My question relates to the ELCB. I have read that current operated ELCBs are the same as an RCD, whereas the voltage ones are not. I wonder if anyone knows if a Centaur 80/2/30 does the same job as the RCD?

The reason for asking now is because I don't want the expense of calling out an electricion if we can't afford a new consumer unit or any extras. I'll have to forgo the shower for him until I can afford the extras.

In a nutsell, would my setup be safe with what I have?

All advice gratefully recieved.

Thanks
!
Phil

 

[RWJ]

As you the RCD / ELCB is ASSUME it is an RCCB (RCBO) Type and the

80 stands for 80amp (circuit breaker part)
2 Stands for double pole
30 stands for 30ma which is the same as an "Everyday" RCD

If what I have said works out then yes you can get a qualified spark in to do the rest

 

[pdlaw]

That's great, thank you very much!

The ELCB looks identical to the one in the middle of the picture which I've just nicked from google images.

http://www.google.co.uk/url?source=...AQQ8wc&usg=AFQjCNFOpkLJCO_q7IyFAmxsF1UtSah4mA
with a load of MCBs sat besdie it.

 

[malcolmsanford]

You will need to get an electrician in to test this ELCB. These types of RCD were discontinued in the 90's and the normal practice is to change them.

It would not be a big job to change that to a new modern 63amp 30mA double pole RCD/RCCB for you without changing the CU.

The only thing is that the work you intend to do is notifiable unfortunately under Part P. Though you do seem to be capable of doing the work, you may find it difficult to get an electrician to sign off your work for you, as under the law they can not do that.

You will find that today getting a scheme affiliated electrician who will install, test, certify and then notify the work to the local building control is a lot less expensive than you imagine. If you did the work yourself the notification to your building contrl could well be 150-200 pounds, and to be honest an electrician will be roughly the same price.

If you use the electrician route you can be assured that the installation will be to the current regulations which will most likely mean that your bonding needs to be upgraded as well, be tested and certified and passed as safe for your father.

 

[telectrix]

following on from that useful post, i suggest, pdlaw, that you could run the cable in and mount the pull switchand shower, but not connect anything, and then get your electrician to connect up and test. for 10.5kwatt, you best using 10mm T/E. and a crabtree round pull switch.

 

[IQ Electrical]

Your device will be an RCD.

The old voltage operated devices (VOELCB) were quite a large unit, often with a yellow test button but the best way to identify them is by checking for a terminal labelled 'Frame' or simply 'F'.

They look like this:

 

[gamblor6]

would i not be correct in saying that elcb,s should be taken away as they now not permitted?

 

[IQ Electrical]

would i not be correct in saying that elcb,s should be taken away as they now not permitted?

Be careful here, ELCB's are RCD's with a different name, VOELCB's should be removed and if neccessary, replaced with an appropriately sized RCD.

 

[pdlaw]

Hi RWJ, malcolmnasford, telectrix, IQ and gamblor.

Thanks for very much quick and detailed responses.

I will route everything with 10mm2, fit a pull cord, but not actually connect anything to any terminals in the shower or to any switches pending an electriction coming in to do this.


I'd planned to use 10mm cable and when I said pull switch, I actually meant a proper shower pull cord with neon light, ideally rated at 42amp which is the shower rating.

If you know of an electrician in Oxford who comes here, please do give them a shout or ask them to PM me. I'd feel happier paying for someone who is a member here in order to give something back to the community for the responses I have had.

Phil

 

[pdlaw]

45 amp even, sorry, typo!

 

[malcolmsanford]

The old seperate voltage operated ones should be removed from service as often they would not work on a fault situation, even when new, and unless you have the old type ELCB Transformer type tester that would induce 45volts across the coil tester you can not test them. Some sparkes do leave them in as use as a double pole isolator.

The current operated ones and the the ones in the OP CU can be checked by a normal RCD tester and if they operate ok then there is no reason to change them. Experience showed me that more often than not they will work but intermitantly, after all there could be 30 or 40 years of dust and load on them.

The type in the OP CU can be changed quite easily with a modern device and I've seen them on the bay for as little as 10 pounds, so I think unless they are spot on, for safety purposes I would change them.

 

[telectrix]

most shower pull switches are at best, crap. recommend the crabby round switch as being the most reliable, esp. for 10mm T/E.