Shower Room

[tazmantic]

Need some advice please all,

Now my dads getting on a bit I decided to turn the old built in wardrobe into a shower for him (perfect size 1100x760 shower base will fit a treat) and one wall backs onto the bathroom right next to the stack pipe other the airing cupboard with all the water i need :0) started on the job, not much really just removed a floor board to check waste route and removed a few shelves only to think after chatting to a mate will I need building regs...... Quick call to council and answer was yes :0(

So they sent me some forms and soon as I work out how to fill them in I will lol, question is what am I going to get for the £140 it looks like there going to charge me????????? Also will I need to get the lectrics tested by a "competent person" ???????
There will be no new cables run in as there is already an inline fan with low voltage lighting that was installed years ago as used it for my computer etc, and in the airing cupboard there is a spare fused spur once again been there years but was going to replace the fcu with an rcd fcu as there is not one it the consumer unit........ the shower I intend to install is a power shower not one with a heater element init...

Any advice greatly received.....

 

[IQ Electrical]

The electrics (especially in a 'special location') should be installed and tested by a competent person.

 

[tazmantic]

Thanks for the reply IQ, and Im aware of that but there already there Im just connecdting to them and as the connection will be in the room next door is that classed as a special location.......

 

[nikmet]

Thanks for the reply IQ, and Im aware of that but there already there Im just connecdting to them and as the connection will be in the room next door is that classed as a special location.......

Short answer is YES, It is notifiable so should be installed/connected and tested by a competent person (part P competent)

 

[tazmantic]

Thanks nikmet but Not what I wanted to hear lol, so how much is that gonna cost to get that tested?????? or does the building regs Ive gotta pay for cover that??????? thought I had read somewhere if there were NO connections in the shower room then it was ok.......

 

[IQ Electrical]

Thanks nikmet but Not what I wanted to hear lol, so how much is that gonna cost to get that tested?????? or does the building regs Ive gotta pay for cover that??????? thought I had read somewhere if there were NO connections in the shower room then it was ok.......

There are grey areas such as this when it comes to notifiable/non notifiable but seeing as it's a shower room and it's for your old Dad and it involves existing work that may or may not be up to standard, is it not money well spent to get a competent electrician in for a couple of hours to complete the work, test it to BS7671:2008 and notify it if he deems it neccessary?

 

[ukpablo]

you may also need to have the earthing checked? all these unknown areas will and should be done by a competent person who knows what they are looking for to meet your requirements..................it will be money well spent knowing that everything is done properly and to current regulation by a qualified electrician, and that it wont catch fire due to poor workmanship and the fitting of incorrect fittings for the job. Most sparks will give u a free quote and tell u what needs doing before u even think about parting with some cash!

 

[tazmantic]

Thanks again IQ and your right Ill just have to get the building regs guy out and see what he says, like I said Ill be fitting an RCD fcu and if I thought there was any danger with the wiring in his house I would not let him turn the lights on let alone use a shower.....Thanks

 

[tazmantic]

you may also need to have the earthing checked? all these unknown areas will and should be done by a competent person who knows what they are looking for to meet your requirements..................it will be money well spent knowing that everything is done properly and to current regulation by a qualified electrician, and that it wont catch fire due to poor workmanship and the fitting of incorrect fittings for the job. Most sparks will give u a free quote and tell u what needs doing before u even think about parting with some cash!

Hi ukpablo, yeah earthing was one thing I was thinking of though there is earth bonding in place, and "qualified electrician" thats ok then as I is one lol just not "competent"..........so what is the going rate for testing as neither of us is made of money.....Thanks

 

[ukpablo]

lol...............if ur qualified, then u must know?!!!! just get some quotes is my advice from a couple of sparks in ur area. Everywhere is different, so if ur qualified but not competent then surely u must be up to date with BS7671???

IM afraid u gonna be getting ur wallet out bud................being competent costs money as im sure ur fully aware of! i cant really say without looking at it so im absolutely no help to u whatsoever..........so good luck anyway, nice chatting! :earmuffs:

Hi ukpablo, yeah earthing was one thing I was thinking of though there is earth bonding in place, and "qualified electrician" thats ok then as I is one lol just not "competent"..........so what is the going rate for testing as neither of us is made of money.....Thanks

 

[tazmantic]

Qualified but not up to date (as stated in my other posts) always worked in industral not domestic and my employers have never wanted to train me any further (not for want of me asking) and finding the time and money to do the courses my self is difficult, so just really wanted to know if there were hard and fast rules but as IQ said there are gray areas......but thanks anyway

 

[brucelee]

If you are getting labc in then they become responsible for the inspection and testing and your not a electrician and just doing it diy its stated in electricians guide to building regulations
a diy er has to notify before carrying out the works then the labc become responsible who will send a competent approved inspector to inspect and test the work and fill in cert as a diy er is not qualified to fill certs in
a qualified but not registered with a governing body electrician , has to notify complete the cert send a copy to them of the test results and labc become responsible for the work and will send a independent fully qualified approved spark to inspect and test and sign I&T and the qualified spark who is not registered signs for design and construction
a qualified and registered electrician is classed as competent and approved to carry out the work to the standards and is allowed to notify and self certify the work through the governing body ie Elecsa ,NICEIC etc who will notify labc of the work then a building completion cert will be sent to the client /customer

 

[Deleted member 26818]

The grey area as I see it, is that the existing lighting and the extractor fan do not have RCD protection.
As they are existing, there is no requirement to upgrade them to current standards.
However you will be changing the use of the cupboard and will be turning it into a special location, in which the current Regulations require all the circuits to be RCD protected.
If you don't RCD protect all of the circuits, then you would have to install supplementary bonding, connecting the circuit CPCs and any extraneous-conductive-parts back to the CU.
I note that you intend powering the shower from an RCD FCU, the Regulations require the circuit to be RCD protected, not just the part that is spurred off of another circuit.
You may want to consider purchasing and installing a shower CU, I believe Screwfix and Tool Station supply these for around £30-£40.

 

[tazmantic]

Thanks brucelee, think that makes sense but will need to read again tomorrow as bit tired now, only contacted the council (labc) to see if I needed building regs but to be honest the guy my other half was put onto didnt want to hear any thing about what I was doing just said "yes need regs" end of, she had to ring back and speak to another person to see how we went about getting them. If you do it all the time yeah ok you know what to do but this is the first time Ive contacted them about anything so I have no idea, Im even going to have to ring up to ask how to fill the form in.......makes me think I should of just done it but I do like to do things to the book. Think I need to just fill in the form, get them out an see what they say.... Thanks Again

 

[tazmantic]

The grey area as I see it, is that the existing lighting and the extractor fan do not have RCD protection.
As they are existing, there is no requirement to upgrade them to current standards.
However you will be changing the use of the cupboard and will be turning it into a special location, in which the current Regulations require all the circuits to be RCD protected.
If you don't RCD protect all of the circuits, then you would have to install supplementary bonding, connecting the circuit CPCs and any extraneous-conductive-parts back to the CU.
I note that you intend powering the shower from an RCD FCU, the Regulations require the circuit to be RCD protected, not just the part that is spurred off of another circuit.
You may want to consider purchasing and installing a shower CU, I believe Screwfix and Tool Station supply these for around £30-£40.

Thanks spinlondon, thats why I needed to ask on here lots of knowledge the fan is an inline one (motor and all connections in loft area) does this still need to be RCD protected?? also the spur I was intending on using has its own fuse in the CU (15A fuse feeding 2 FCUs in the airing cupboard via 2.5 T&E) one for the boiler one spare so was hoping I could use that for the power shower pump but was going to fit an RCD fcu for added saftey, I can install a shower CU but then will I not need to get it tested ?? I was hoping by using existing I could for go the need and expense of getting it all tested......... Thanks

 

[brucelee]

mate if you paying labc they become responsible for the inspection and testing its down to them to make sure it complies then they issue building completion cert and will get approved elecy to do the testing

have you got a copy of elecys guide to building regs or part p approved document free to download along wih all the others from government portal just google approve document part p

 

[Deleted member 26818]

If the fan and the pump are outside of the shower room, then you shouldn't need to RCD protect them, which will leave you just needing to RCD protect the lighting.
If you install the shower using plastic pipes, then you shouldnt need supplementary bonding.
I would consider installing an RCD in an enclosure next to the CU if possible and connecting the lighting to it.
You would only need to test the lighting circuit (Zs, polarity and earth continuity), the RCD and the supply characteristic which could be determined by enquiry.
I'd suggest using a MWC, then you wouldn't have to bother with the supply characteristics.

 

[tazmantic]

mate if you paying labc they become responsible for the inspection and testing its down to them to make sure it complies then they issue building completion cert and will get approved elecy to do the testing

have you got a copy of elecys guide to building regs or part p approved document free to download along wih all the others from government portal just google approve document part p

Thanks again brucelee, so there fee will cover testing as well?? I wont need to pay a lecky as well?? as for a guide to the regs no I aint I will download it and read it as soon as I can. I have seen online courses for part P and you get a cert at the end I have read on here that a cert for part P aint really worth jack but If it teaches me the regs is it not worth the 70 quid?????? I doubt Ill ever be "competent" as its not worth me joining a scheme as I wont be going out doing it for a living I doubt but Id like to be trained up to competent level...
Thanks again for taking the time to explain things to me

 

[tazmantic]

If the fan and the pump are outside of the shower room, then you shouldn't need to RCD protect them, which will leave you just needing to RCD protect the lighting.
If you install the shower using plastic pipes, then you shouldnt need supplementary bonding.
I would consider installing an RCD in an enclosure next to the CU if possible and connecting the lighting to it.
You would only need to test the lighting circuit (Zs, polarity and earth continuity), the RCD and the supply characteristic which could be determined by enquiry.
I'd suggest using a MWC, then you wouldn't have to bother with the supply characteristics.

Hi spinlondon thanks for the extra info, that is what I thought for stuff outside the shower room but wanted it confirmed by someone who knows, as for the light its a 12v dichroic spot thats fitted into the fan grill so the 240v connection for this is also in the loft area so will this need RCD protection??
I will look into fitting an RCD unit by the CU but if I can install it all without needing to alter too much BUT still keeping it perfectly safe to use Ill try go that route, as for the supplementary bonding there was some installed years ago in the bathroom but if there is not any in the airing cupboard (I cant remember I dont go in there too often lol) can I do this????? would it need certificating??????

As with brucelee thanks so much for your time

 

[Deleted member 26818]

As the light is existing, and is 12V, installing an RCD would not do anything to improve safety in the shower room.
As such it will not be required.
To be honest with you, from the information you have supplied, there appears to be little if anything that will require notification, at least as far as Part P is concerned.
I don't know what the requirements of the Building Regulations are with regards installing a shower, outside of Part P.
Also there doesn't appear to be anything that will require Certification.
You are not installing any circuits, you are not carrying out electrical work in a special location, in fact you do not even appear to be altering or adding to any existing circuits.
At present, how is the light and the fan controlled?
If both the light and the fan are controlled by an existing light switch, outside of the shower, then it would seem that all you would be doing electrically, is connecting a pump to an existing FCU.
If the rating of the FCU and the associated wiring is adequate for the pump, you do not fix the wiring from the FCU to the pump and you use plastic pipework to supply the shower, then I would sugget that there is no requirement for Certification.