Side and Indicator Lights

[adam_r]

Hey everyone, I am looking for some help on something I have been trying to do for ages.

I have my indicator side repeater, and sidelight on the side of my car and a side light. I want to consolidate these into 1 fitting i.e. have the sidelight on and when the indicator comes on, the bulb to flash (501 fitment) and then goes back to static when the indicator goes off. I tried a relay, but the indicator was the opposite of what was actually flashing (it was off when the rest were on and vice versa)

Any advice on this would be awesome.

 

[Marvo]

Although it sounds simple at first glance, what you're trying to do is actually quite complex. You'd need either an extra normally closed switch on your indicator stalk to supply your sidelight or you'd need to throw some technology at it.

 

[HandySparks]

The rules on vehicle lighting in the UK are tightly defined. You may wish to check that what you're proposing is actually allowed (I suspect not).

 

[Besoeker]

Hey everyone, I am looking for some help on something I have been trying to do for ages.

I have my indicator side repeater, and sidelight on the side of my car and a side light. I want to consolidate these into 1 fitting i.e. have the sidelight on and when the indicator comes on, the bulb to flash (501 fitment) and then goes back to static when the indicator goes off. I tried a relay, but the indicator was the opposite of what was actually flashing (it was off when the rest were on and vice versa)

Any advice on this would be awesome.

Assuming it's legal to do so.......
If the relay to fitted has a changeover arrangement, and most do, swap from NO to NC or vice versa.

 

[adam_r]

Assuming it's legal to do so.......
If the relay to fitted has a changeover arrangement, and most do, swap from NO to NC or vice versa.

I've tried just a relay and it flashed opposite to the indicators, will swapping from NC to NO make the difference?

The rules on vehicle lighting in the UK are tightly defined. You may wish to check that what you're proposing is actually allowed (I suspect not).

i know it may not be strictly legal (although, Transit vans, Mercedes Sprinters, lorries, Luton vans and the like all have the same thing) but I just want to know how to do it to be honest.

 

[tazz]

Problem with vehicle indicators, is the polarity is reversed, when switching left and right. Hence your relay is possibly clicking in on left when you require right. Only at the lamp itself, is the polarity correct.
Only why to get around this is a diode blocking array, to direct, positive and neg in the correct order.

 

[not clever]

You will get pulled by the old bill if you side lights flash.

 

[adam_r]

Problem with vehicle indicators, is the polarity is reversed, when switching left and right. Hence your relay is possibly clicking in on left when you require right. Only at the lamp itself, is the polarity correct.
Only why to get around this is a diode blocking array, to direct, positive and neg in the correct order.

thanks for that. any info on how i would go about doing this? thanks

 

[adam_r]

You will get pulled by the old bill if you side lights flash.

Im not sure I would as previously mentioned, the OEM lighting of many vehicles on UK roads is this way.

 

[not clever]

Up to you but I've been employed to install this stuff & unless you are emergency services you'll get pulled at some point (if you are in the uk that is)
Blue Light Use

 

[adam_r]

Blue light / emergency light use is rather different to combining a side light / indicator light.

Amber side lights are fully road legal in the UK and I've been running them front and sides for 2 years. (Naturally as they are legal I've never been pulled)

also, indicators (which flash) are also amber. So why would combining the 2 cause such a stir?

 

[PEG]

The other thing that might get upset,is any node or canbus ecu if fitted. You will need an interlock relay arrangement to separate the two circuits. Also,ensure the flash relay fitted to your vehicle can operate the side light lamp,should be ok at 5 W. Your interlock relays (2,if n/s and o/s side lights are on separate fuses) will need to cut in where side light circuit spurs off for side marker,or wire from there. As a fiesty youngster,i wired a pals Mk2 Escort,so the driver could,using a telemechaniche contact block switch,could "ripple" the lights rotating clockwise...we used a big old solid state logic board and SHED load of relays chorred from Lucas (inside pal) It looked dazzling. Now,my son can work central heating in another town,using his mobile....Oh well

 

[davesparks]

Assuming it's legal to do so.......
If the relay to fitted has a changeover arrangement, and most do, swap from NO to NC or vice versa.

A lot of automotive relays are 4pin and don't have a N/C contact.

 

[tazz]

Just had a look a modern indicator circuits, and using a combination of relays, will result in the new lights being out of phase with the rest of the indicators...ie off when should be flashing on....the only thing I can come up with is dual wattage lamps, with side light at a low wattage, then flashing at a higher wattage when indicating.

 

[Guest111]

What you have to watch here is our daft laws,specifically the road traffic lighting regulations,here's an example regarding rear fog lights.Now then if you want to fit rear fog lights to a vehicle or trailer then they must be positioned no lower than 300 mm from the ground and no further than 100mm from the edge of the vehicle,yet a lot of new cars,think Mini's, have 1 rear fog lamp in the centre.This is another example of how big manufacturers can turn their noses up at our laws,there,s another one coming out that has a display screen on the dash and you can link it to your Iphone or tablet.Now the fact that having a screen playing a video or dvd that is visible from the drivers seat whilst the vehicle is in motion is an offence this doesn't seem to matter to these manufacturers,in other countries they,d not even get the vehicles imported.In short there's a lot of things that you as an individual will get jumped on for doing yet the car makers get away with worse.

 

[Guest111]

Blue light / emergency light use is rather different to combining a side light / indicator light.

Amber side lights are fully road legal in the UK and I've been running them front and sides for 2 years. (Naturally as they are legal I've never been pulled)

also, indicators (which flash) are also amber. So why would combining the 2 cause such a stir?

Adam,amber front side lights are not and never were legal,end of! the law states front lights should be white and rear ones red,amber may be used as side marker lights,and are mandatory on vehicles over a certain length.The reason you've not been pulled with amber lights on the front is that these days a lot of police either don't know the laws or don't care! The one that really gets me is the pratts who drive around with their front foglights/driving lights lit because they think it looks cool,If I was a copper they'd soon wonder how cool it was if they got a £60 fine every time they were seen with them on.Sorry for the rant mate but there,s that much going on these days it wind's me up,people with coloured bulbs in sidelights are another one,I have loads of extra's on my car,flashing ambers flashing reds and a roof bar,technically if I wanted I could have the clear ones that light up blue,however they are there for use in situations where they are needed,not like some of the numpty's on the road.One piece of advice I would give you is to wire any extra lights through a switch so you can turn them off if need be,then you can always argue that they are for show use only.

 

[adam_r]

Im a bit of a novice when it comes to relays etc so if anyone could help out with a diagram of how i would go about it that would be great!

Adam,amber front side lights are not and never were legal,end of! the law states front lights should be white and rear ones red,amber may be used as side marker lights,and are mandatory on vehicles over a certain length.The reason you've not been pulled with amber lights on the front is that these days a lot of police either don't know the laws or don't care! The one that really gets me is the pratts who drive around with their front foglights/driving lights lit because they think it looks cool,If I was a copper they'd soon wonder how cool it was if they got a £60 fine every time they were seen with them on.Sorry for the rant mate but there,s that much going on these days it wind's me up,people with coloured bulbs in sidelights are another one,I have loads of extra's on my car,flashing ambers flashing reds and a roof bar,technically if I wanted I could have the clear ones that light up blue,however they are there for use in situations where they are needed,not like some of the numpty's on the road.One piece of advice I would give you is to wire any extra lights through a switch so you can turn them off if need be,then you can always argue that they are for show use only.

thanks for the reply dude but if you read the first post I am referring to the side lights (on the side, as I have added the US spec wheel arches which come with side lights in them) and NOT front side light.

I want all the controls to stay OEM so adding lights on another switch isn't really an option.

 

[Guest111]

Ok Adam,I've given this some thought and the best I can come up with at the minute is for the lights to work as side repeating indicators during the day then change to side markers when you put the lights on,only other way would be as Tazz said using dual filament lamps.

 

[Richard Burns]

I assume you have tried the following arrangement?
Unfortunately I do not know the polarity with which lights are switched if both indicators and side lights are switched in the same pole then this logically should work, so long as the indicator relay is supplied with a positive feed from the indicator stalk switch.
However I do not know about car lighting specifically.
This is just a theoretical approach.

 

[UNG]

thanks for the reply dude but if you read the first post I am referring to the side lights (on the side, as I have added the US spec wheel arches which come with side lights in them) and NOT front side light.

I want all the controls to stay OEM so adding lights on another switch isn't really an option.

I assume your US spec lights are appropriately marked for use in the UK

In the last few years they have been tightening up on MOT's and mods like this are what they are clamping down on

 

[adam_r]

I assume you have tried the following arrangement?
Unfortunately I do not know the polarity with which lights are switched if both indicators and side lights are switched in the same pole then this logically should work, so long as the indicator relay is supplied with a positive feed from the indicator stalk switch.
However I do not know about car lighting specifically.
This is just a theoretical approach.
View attachment 25663

thank you very much I will give this a shot!

 

[adam_r]

I assume your US spec lights are appropriately marked for use in the UK

In the last few years they have been tightening up on MOT's and mods like this are what they are clamping down on

Indeed they are 'E' approved and have it spammed in them.

And as they are an OEM part they are straight and not just chucked on like the lovely DRL lights you get from halfrauds.

i don't really consider adding an OEM part a mod. Granted, adjusting the wiring is, however as we have discovered amber side markers are legal then having an amber side marker which becomes an indicator is not really an issue...you see it flashing it means your indicating. Simples.

 

[adam_r]

Just so we all know what I'm talking about these are the lights

 

[tazz]

I assume you have tried the following arrangement?
Unfortunately I do not know the polarity with which lights are switched if both indicators and side lights are switched in the same pole then this logically should work, so long as the indicator relay is supplied with a positive feed from the indicator stalk switch.
However I do not know about car lighting specifically.
This is just a theoretical approach.
View attachment 25663

I did comment on this idea, if you think about it the if side light are on then there will be no flashing cycle.

 

[Richard Burns]

I did comment on this idea, if you think about it the if side light are on then there will be no flashing cycle.

What I am intending with this diagram is to power a relay using the switching mechanism of the indicator stalk i.e. when you move the indicator stalk you switch on the indicator circuit and also switch on the relay.
If the side lights are on then the relay disconnects them from the side light supply and instead connects them into the indicator bulb supply from the flasher unit.
If the indicators flash then, since this is the same supply, the side lights will flash (though it may need a bigger fuse on the circuit).
If the side lights are off then this will make no difference they will still flash with the indicators.
You would need one relay for left and one for right.

I cannot see why the status of the side lights would have an effect.

 

[adam_r]

The indicators go though the ECU so I can only connect directly before the bulb would this make a difference?

 

[not clever]

Now I see
I thought you were on about side lights as in headlight side lights.
Sorry for the confusion.

 

[adam_r]

No probs dude. I guess not many british cars have actual 'side' lights they are all just front and rear so easy to jump to that conclusion

 

[tazz]

25663[/ATTACH]

Richard..87a is feed from side lights....87 is feed from indicators....both supplies com side lights.
if 87a and 87 are positive...the com to side lights will be constantly on, no delay no flashing

 

[Richard Burns]

Richard..87a is feed from side lights....87 is feed from indicators....both supplies com side lights.
if 87a and 87 are positive...the com to side lights will be constantly on, no delay no flashing

Ahh, I see what you mean; the power to the relay coil is not meant to flash, it is meant to be constant. So while the indicator is switched the side lights supply is off and the flashing supply from the indicator bulbs also powers the sidelights.

 

[Auto Technician]

Im a bit of a novice when it comes to relays etc so if anyone could help out with a diagram of how i would go about it that would be great!



thanks for the reply dude but if you read the first post I am referring to the side lights (on the side, as I have added the US spec wheel arches which come with side lights in them) and NOT front side light.

I want all the controls to stay OEM so adding lights on another switch isn't really an option.

Side lamps are officially called Position lamps, hence their position at both the front and rear of a vehicle, height from ground and distance inwards from extreme edge of vehicle.

Amber lamps at each side of the vehicle are not side lamps or position lamps, they are officially called outline side marker lamps to the best of my knowledge. :wink5: