Signage lighting

Rockington · Oct 8, 2015

Hi need to wire up a couple of signs at a doctors surgery , one at back one at front . Customer only wants them on till around 8pm so decided to put each one on a digital timer and photocell . Went to install today and the green brook timers don't work with a photocell . Anyone know of any specific digital timers which will work with a photocell as all the ones I've checked are the same

cheer sin advance

Pete999 · Oct 8, 2015

Do away with the PIR

Darkwood · Oct 8, 2015

Ho welcome to the forum.

You say you are an apprentice, if you are actively in course at the moment it might interest you to apply for access to the trainee forum which will be more suited to your level and experience, its just a suggestion not a requirement

In reply, what do you mean they are not compatible with the sensor?

Do you require a timeclock with vaults free contacts - you feed the sensor with permanent power then run the switch wire through the volts free contacts to the fittings.

Can you post a wiring plan of your set-up?

Darkwood · Oct 8, 2015

Pete999 said:
Do away with the PIR

What PIR?

Pete999 · Oct 8, 2015

darkwood said:
What PIR?

OK Photo Cell post 1 Red wine again sorry for the error

Octopus · Oct 8, 2015

You should try one of these:

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/STNM3000B.html

You won't be able to set 8pm but with trial and error you will get what you want and NEVER have to adjust it!

Darkwood · Oct 8, 2015

Pete999 said:
OK Photo Cell post 1 Red wine again sorry for the error

In my experience Doctors can be a preverbial pain in the butt about these signs been on too early so his options are to fit an expensive seasonal timeclock x2 (as he suggests he has wired) or 2 cheap time clocks with independent photocells...I usually find quotes are won with the cheaper option but just as reliable.

Edit - or as Murdoch has linked to.. first time I seen these units myself :wacko:

Octopus · Oct 8, 2015

darkwood said:
In my experience Doctors can be a preverbial pain in the butt about these signs been on too early so his options are to fit an expensive seasonal timeclock x2 (as he suggests he has wired) or 2 cheap time clocks with independent photocells...I usually find quotes are won with the cheaper option but just as reliable.

Edit - or as Murdoch has linked to.. first time I seen these units myself :wacko:

Fitted loads of these, they are excellent.

Rockington · Oct 8, 2015

Hi darkwood , am apprentice trained but at 43 definitely not an apprentice!! . Price isn't the issue , just want it right but the digital timers won't work through a photocell. Murdoch , I saw these earlier , when I was looking for alternatives but noticed they can only be set for periods of time after dusk . If this is the case in summer the sign would come on from say 10 to 12 midnight !!
They only want it on when it is dark but going off at around 8 or 9 .

Darkwood · Oct 8, 2015

Can you post a wiring plan... I cannot understand why you cannot use a standard timeclock with volts free contact to switch a photocell switch wire?

davesparks · Oct 8, 2015

Why don't the digital timers work?
A single channel CH programmer like a Drayton lp711 will give you a volt free output that will work.

Of price really is not an issue then stick a Sangamo solar timeswitch in there!

Rockington · Oct 8, 2015

The instructions say can't be used on dimmers or LED lighting , so rang technical dept about photocells , and said wont work .
can use a standard time clock , but as they are situated in offices wanted something smarter . Thought there must be something out there made for the job that someone had used before !!

Octopus · Oct 8, 2015

Rockington said:
The instructions say can't be used on dimmers or LED lighting , so rang technical dept about photocells , and said wont work .
can use a standard time clock , but as they are situated in offices wanted something smarter . Thought there must be something out there made for the job that someone had used before !!

I suggest you read post #6

dansk · Oct 12, 2015

Surely you could wire the lights via a relay and have the timer or photo cell activate the relay at any given time?

Dave OCD · Oct 13, 2015

Can't the timer output simply feed the photo cell with the return powering the lit signs ? Then even if the timer was set early the lights wouldn't work until dusk and the timer could remove the supply to the photo cell/lights at 8pm.

Darkwood · Oct 13, 2015

Dave OCD said:
Can't the timer output simply feed the photo cell with the return powering the lit signs ? Then even if the timer was set early the lights wouldn't work until dusk and the timer could remove the supply to the photo cell/lights at 8pm.

Not the best design to energise and de-energise the dusk/dawn sensor with a timer as it will bring the lights on regardless when energised until the electronics have settled and monitored light level, you need permanent power to sensor and interupt the switch with timer.

Dave OCD · Oct 13, 2015

Yeah I did consider that but with an electronic PEC it would only switch on if energised in daylight for a few seconds before cutting off although I agree it's not a perfect solution.

Octopus · Oct 13, 2015

Just fit the Steinel Product - on at dusk, off at a constant time, no fiddling with a timer!

davesparks · Oct 13, 2015

Murdoch said:
Just fit the Steinel Product - on at dusk, off at a constant time, no fiddling with a timer!

The instructions aren't clear on that. Can you actually set it to switch off at a specific time?

Octopus · Oct 13, 2015

davesparks said:
The instructions aren't clear on that. Can you actually set it to switch off at a specific time?

Hum.. not to an actual hour or minute but its a constant time, you just need to fine tune the adjustment! Thats the only downside to the product but never had a complaint as people like the ability for it to come one when it gets dark and they never have to adjust it!

HandySparks · Oct 13, 2015

davesparks said:
The instructions aren't clear on that. Can you actually set it to switch off at a specific time?

It keeps track of the local astronomical 'midnight' by monitoring sunrise and sunset over a period of a few days. You can bias the turn off time by a few hours either side of midnight, but not with any precision. It doesn't know about summer time.

You can also tell it to come on for a while until it gets light in the early mornings when the nights are long.

You might need a second visit to tweak the timing, but once it's set, it's a pretty good controller for 'welcome home' lights where you don't want the lights turning on and off on a pir. I have one controlling a fancy wall light which backlights the house number.

jase · Oct 14, 2015

Adaptable box under or next to or above fuse board, time clock and contactor mounted on dinrail in said box. From time clock into A1 and A2 on contactor, lights feed in to1+3 feed out in 2+ 4 to photocell, photocell to lights, all fed from same MCB.
time clock energises contactor and energises circuit, if dark photocell turns on lights and at 8 pm time clock de-energises contactor and cuts lights off