Sittingbourne Fire the other week

[SibertSolar]

Not sure if anyone caught this in the news at all

Fire warning after Britain's first solar panel blaze

Anyone happen to know who installed the system, or any more details about this? PM me if preferred,

Andy

PS: Apologies if it has been discussed already, I must have missed it if it was

 

[SolarCity]

I'd love to know more details also. What exactly has caught fire?

Edit: Also, would someone please educate my on why this is considered such a hazard? I would have thought that the potential risk to a fireman is getting close to zero.

 

[SibertSolar]

That's what I'm trying to get to the bottom of myself, the only mention so far has been a speculative comment about a "DC switch". I've just spoken to the guys at the fire station and the watch supervisor who has been involved with the fall-out from it is off shift now until Sunday. I'll hopefully talk to him on Tuesday.

 

[FB.]

Taking some extracts to make an educated guess:

".....a faulty DC switch linked to the panels caused the roof fire....." (1,2)

".....harder to tackle because the sun is a constant light source....." (3)

".....roof is traditionally only designed to take the weight of the fount, the batons and the tiles....." (5)

".....a significant problem for us fighting fires on roofs and inside roof spaces....." (2,3)

"......they're live and we've got an issue isolating that in the loft space....." (4)

".....the panels were fitted to the property a week earlier....." (1)


(1) New installation, either incorrectly done and/or a faulty component.

(2) a fire occurred in the loft

(3) Firemen bothered about potentially live DC cables.

(4) DC isolators in the loft space (next to inverter?) and the firemen were miffed that to ensure no DC is flowing they would have to climb into the loft to turn off the isolators (but the inverter cuts out if someone shuts off the AC?).

(5) worried that the greater load on the roof might put firemen in the loft at greater risk

////////////////////////////


So my guess is one or more of the following:

Bad installation - maybe no AC isolator downstairs; perhaps AC and DC isolators next to inverter (in the loft).
Lack of appreciation (or instructions) of how to shut down a solar array.
Concerns about managing to find the AC isolator in the thick smoke of a fire (assuming that the solar equipment isn't the cause and is still running).
Concerns about fire-damaged roofs collapsing more easily with a 500kg solar array (never mind the weight of junk some people keep in the loft!).
Health and Safety gone mad.

 

[JulianC]

One wonders at the amount of creative journalism taking place if the house in question is the one in the photographs. Not much evidence of a fire from the outside.

Rumour has it a faulty/undersized DC isolator was to blame.

 

[Earthstore]

Hmmm, can not see much damage there, from all this drama I thought the house had burnt down.
Maybe, if we could all see some more photos (which I am sure will not happen) we could make some constructive comments instead of second guessing.
Still, look on the bright side, they have a holiday out of it, which is more than many working in the renewable industry will be able to afford....

 

[Scobo]

Regarding shutting down the system, I can't quite remember which way we were told to switch off the isolators.
We have AC and DC switches in the loft next to the inverter and downstairs beside the fuse box.
Do you switch off AC first then DC or the other way around ?
Does it make any difference if you shutdown from next to the inverter or the fuse box ?

 

[JulianC]

Convention dictates that you shut off the AC first, then the DC. Reason being once the AC is off the inverter shuts down and the DC inputs become open circuit, allowing you to switch off the DC isolator off load. If you have a correctly sized DC isolator it shouldn't really make much difference which way you switch off.

 

[firemanowl]

Not had anything to do with installing solar panels but have had a lot to do putting out fires. Biggest problem you have is locating the points of isolation, it's all very well owner saying (some of the time owner not home) that ac inverter is next to the ccu which is in the cupboard under the stairs if when you open the front door to make entry into the property the smoke level is at floor level and you can't see anything. 99% of houses firefighters have never been to so finding your way round is by feel. Try and picture yourself trying to find an inverter in a house you've never been to, where you can't see anything. It's especially so when trying to get into a loft space which is involved in fire, you can't see anything, it's usually very hot due to confined space, full of crap and now with more properties having solar panels possible live electrics your backside starts twitching when you bucket a load of water in there. You would be surprised how quickly a roof can collapse when involved in fire, having panels fitted is another consideration incident commanders have to make when committing crews into lofts to extinguish fires. It's the person in charge that has ultimate responsibility for everyone one involved in the incident and if they have limited knowledge/information then they will be causious because if anyone is injured or killed then they will be in front of a judge.


Don't believe everything the newspapers say, they've not got a clue about putting out fires and more so with electrics but write what they think makes a good story. My boss was giving a quote to a reporter about how an attempted fire bombing had been unsuccessful and that they should have done A, B and C. Next day in the paper he was quoted verbatim how to make a petrol bomb, he's not spoken to a reporter since.

 

[Glen Powell]

With some of the DC isolators or should I say modified AC isolators out on the market at the moment it would not be unlikely that this is the cause.

I hope in a way it is proven to be this and more is done to ensure correct switches are used, if in doubt use Santon or IMO

 

[Somecamel]

In Germany they have an Isolator on the side of the building- Like the old firemans switches you see sometimes.

 

[RogertheBodger]

In Germany they have an Isolator on the side of the building- Like the old firemans switches you see sometimes.

This is probably the way forward on this issue.

Whatever keeps the firemen happy is the way to go because they do a hell of a good job. where would we be without them?

 

[firemanowl]

The main problem is the old water and electrics mixing and to a lesser extent the extra weight on the roof but that is only a problem if loft/roof involved in fire. A quick way of isolating the installation altogether would be nice but there isn't the requirement in most of the house fires we attend, however if there starts to be problems with solar installations then all the help we can get, the better. If the installations are done correctly using good quality equipment then there shouldn't be a problem.

 

[jupestar]

the problem with the firemans switch is that it adds to the price so until it is made compulsory it won't standard, sad state of affairs but realistic. firemanowl is right if you use correctly spec and high quality compoents it shouldn't be an issue. Also important to note is damage on install, how easy is it to damage the backing sheet and leave potential for a short circuit, i bet many a roofer 'scratch' the back of a panel on the scaffolding but install it without reporting the damage.

 

[jupestar]

ps. on a domestic install i'd be surprised if it was an undersized dc, i checked with our engineer and he said you'd need to go out of your way do get one with such a low voltage tolerance, Sibert might correct us. but at least i slept easy when he told me he considers this everytime he buys dc boxes for installs.