Sockets in bathrooms

[pc1966]

But you are fine standing under an electric shower?

Which has been specifically designed for use in a wet area.

Not so someone taking in a mains powered radio, TV, or whatever.

 

[DefyG]

Talk of the devil - already been in Codebreakers

Code 2 apparently... Though the colour scheme may be a Code 1.

Looking further, there's a disabled seat in the shower, so this may have been put in to allow an elderly person to receive 'personal care' from a carer. May actually be safer than an extension lead from the hallway - or would be if it wasn't a BG cheapy with clips that will break in 6 months...

Its possible that if that is a fixed glass partition (>600mm wide) the socket could be outside of Zone 2 but nevertheless it is within 3m of a shower cubicle.

A lot of this speculation about 'future' regs and what is done on the continent is irrelevant as we are (or should be) working to BS7671:2018 in England/UK at the present time!

 

[Mike Johnson]

See your post 41.volume mentioned 6 times

You must work really hard to be such a SA, taking the English language as it is "Zone" could/would refer to a flat plane i.e. M2, "Volume" refers to a cubic area i.e. M3 so volume is more accurate.

 

[LastManOnline]

You must work really hard to be such a SA, taking the English language as it is "Zone" could/would refer to a flat plane i.e. M2, "Volume" refers to a cubic area i.e. M3 so volume is more accurate.

Point taken.?. By the way I have noticed from your posts a worrying trend developing where you are displaying the continental trait of objectivity and pragmatism towards electrical practice. I thought I better tip you off before you return to UK for a holiday?
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Its possible that if that is a fixed glass partition (>600mm wide) the socket could be outside of Zone 2 but nevertheless it is within 3m of a shower cubicle.

A lot of this speculation about 'future' regs and what is done on the continent is irrelevant as we are (or should be) working to BS7671:2018 in England/UK at the present time!

My friend. Appreciate your point. However one of the hallmarks of great British engineering and innovation has been its forward looking and open approach to learning. Been prepared to adapt and twerk is essential for progess

 

[telectrix]

Been prepared to adapt and twerk is essential for progess

so that's why we have trained monkeys fitting smart meters. they adapt and learn, but still get it wrong

https://www.electriciansforums.net/posts/1658748/react?reaction_id=1

 

[LastManOnline]

Which has been specifically designed for use in a wet area.

Not so someone taking in a mains powered radio, TV, or whatever.

There are sockets designed for wet areas. The difference is that in the ROI and the UK we have concluded our citizens can't be trained to use them responsibly. I fundamentally disagree with that assessment
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Been prepared to adapt and twerk is essential for progess

so that's why we have trained monkeys fitting smart meters. they adapt and learn, but still get it wrong

https://www.electriciansforums.net/posts/1658748/react?reaction_id=1

Guys. My sincere apologies. Please read "tweek" for "twerk" and "twit" for "Edmond"

 

[nicebutdim]

There are sockets designed for wet areas. The difference is that in the ROI and the UK we have concluded our citizens can't be trained to use them responsibly. I fundamentally disagree with that assessment

Given how readily many of our citizens wish to apportion blame and seek redress from others for the results of their own stupidity, I don't find it altogether surprising that regulatory bodies seek to minimise the risk of electrocution for the terminally stupid amongst us. As there is no easy method of determining which citizens are reasonably minded and which are plain daft, I guess the one size fits all approach is deemed appropriate.

 

[Mike Johnson]

There was a case in my Local French area recently where a young girl took an extension lead into the bathroom to power her radio, she and her father who tried to save her were both electrocuted in the real meaning of the word, both dead, it seems the house was rented and there where no RCD (DD) fitted to the CU.

 

[DefyG]

My friend. Appreciate your point. However one of the hallmarks of great British engineering and innovation has been its forward looking and open approach to learning. Been prepared to adapt and twerk is essential for progess
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I’m certainly not against innovation and innovative ideas but there are ways and means! and implying (especially to our trainees) you condone ‘twerking’ with the regs or installation is a dangerous idea when dealing with electricity and ‘not very bright’ (as also implied) members of the public!
Regulation 133.5 may allow a certain amount of ‘twerking’ (your words) and that’s fine if you can demonstrate greater or equally safe measures to the regs and are prepared to put your name to the certificate, carry on!

 

[pc1966]

The difference is that in the ROI and the UK we have concluded our citizens can't be trained to use them responsibly. I fundamentally disagree with that assessment

The problem with hanging around forums like this is you end up thinking we are "normal" and forget that some of the dumbest suggestions you see here are from folk who know a lot more about electricity that the majority of the population.

 

[Mike Johnson]

In the everlasting words of Manuel "I know nothing"

 

[pc1966]

More generally, there is a very big risk in downgrading a known safety position in the name of convenience.

We all know that some folk will take an extension lead in to a bathroom if they really want power there, and we can't stop them. But it takes more effort than plugging in something to a socket already in a bathroom, and critically for any electrician doing the job, it is clearly a decision by said person against the accepted electrical safety regulation practice.

A change to allow sockets in a bathroom is one that might happen, but it is more of a high-level political decision. Someone at the IET, etc, has to put forward the case that it would be better to society as a whole to allow sockets for convenience, and the risk of additional death/injury is acceptably small in relation to that benefit.

For any of us to put a socket in there would have to be a very good justification that we could present if it came to facing a magistrate at a fatal accident inquiry!

Now hypothetically I would fit a socket for a special case such as the earlier photo showing one in a bathroom for a disabled person. So if a carer came to me and made the point that this person has special needs that really needs the ready supply of power in the converted bathroom, I would probably do something like that - fit an outdoor RCD-protected socket on to an existing RCD-protected ring or dedicated spur.

In this case I could argue that (1) there was a specific justification for fitting it beyond trivial convenience, (2) that it was waterproof style and outside of zone 0/1, and (3) that the dual RCD arrangement would avoid a single point of failure in the protection electronics.

But if it became normalised to have sockets fitted you would get dodgy Dave and similar fitting them to homes without RCD protection, which I suspect are still a significant portion of the UK stock.

 

[pc1966]

Also to add that I really would have to make sure the bath was earthed. Otherwise someone might drop a class II appliance in to the bath and receive a fatal L-N shock if the OCPD fails to clear quickly, and without the RCD noticing anything is wrong.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Ah ha old school still think the majority of baths are metal about the only thing metal on bath's now days is the taps, even the waste's are plastic. No offence meant.

 

[pc1966]

Ah ha old school still think the majority of baths are metal about the only thing metal on bath's now days is the taps, even the waste's are plastic. No offence meant.

That is an issue, I was thinking along the lines of being able to earth the waste outlet as often they have chrome decorative bits, etc, but it is quite possible that will not be practical either.

But it raises an important issue for those who believe that RCD will save you - that works only for a L-E path, not for L-N which a bath that is isolated could well give you.