Sockets & Sinks - The Law?

[PEG]

Hi,thanks for sticking with it

Firstly,the inspection your landlord will probably have booked,will not be an EICR,but a standard landlord safety inspection,which is generally a lesser endeavour...

Secondly,what problem did you sort yourselves,with the hob and hood fuses? Was the landlord involved in this repair?

Thirdly,depending on what set-up you have,the bill could be correct,unless vastly increased on a previous time period,with the same equipment. If you have access to the meter,it should not be hard to work out if the communal areas are added to your load.

The advice,regarding getting your own EICR done,may well be prudent and revealing,but you would have to do that,with permission of the landlord. This is not a grey area.

I hope you get to the bottom of your quest,and inform us of the story

 

[EricMark]

I am sure it is not right, however as to the right way to get fixed, not so sure, clearly if you have a flood you have to leave your home, and insurance will likely pay the extra to live in a hotel, but insurance is unlikely to cover what was never right in the first place, and so much depends on your contract as to what happens if some one decides the home is not inhabitable.

There was a case where some old lady rented out her house, and she was made aware of an electrical short coming so engaged an electrician to fix it, however in the mean time before the electrician had got around to doing the job, the young lady renting the house was killed, we are only talking about a week delay waiting for electrician, it was made plain by the court the home should not have been occupied until fixed. It seems the old lady should have said sorry you will need to move out until fixed.

If the property is classed as not habitable then you need to move out, we as electricians are told we need to find alternative accommodation if we find or do something to make a home not habitable, but no one says who has to pay, that would depend on contracts signed.

Moving out for a week is one thing, but how long would it take to get the faults fixed, to start with likely the land lord will want some quotes, so likely 2 weeks before any work could start, and then likely the kitchen will need stripping to do the work, and the land lord has I think 28 days to fix C2 faults, and any C1 and he has to move you out until fixed.

I have when younger flexed my mussels and said xyz must be done before I can work here, and I have been told there's the gate, pick up your cards on the way, does not matter what the law says, as there is usually some other law that allows them to do some thing like say sorry you need to move out.

I don't know how you live, but I moved house just over a year ago, and I still have not completed the move, when from 2⅓ houses to 1, sold 1⅓ houses, but other one is still technically mine and I am still transferring stuff. My son is buying it so no hurry.

If it was easy to find better accommodation then I will assume you would have moved, so you need to tread careful, my son has been living with a single ring induction hob, and a microwave cooker for last 4 months, he started to move in just before lock down, and we had move the cooker, dishwasher, washing machine, drier, freezer and fridge freezer to this house, OK we can do it, as he is my son and no rental agreement, but I have been waiting for builders to return to fix a roof leak for 5 months, they can't get the materials, so temporary fixes only.

In Wales it seems the requirement for an EICR is only for multi occupation premises as the Welsh government said it could cause homelessness if it was introduced to all property. It is easy on the internet to tell you your rights, if it all goes wrong it is not us looking for a new home.

 

[HappyHippyDad]

Keeping it simple I would wait until you have had the 'report' carried out. Then put a copy of it on here so you can get some replies and advice.
If the report shows up all the failings then problem solved.
If it looks like a shoddy report then I would get an electrician of your choice to carry out an EICR. I realise that is forking out £150-£200 but it doesn't look like you're getting very far with your landlord and you want to be safe.
last option may be to find somewhere else to live if none of the above works!

 

[davesparks]

If the property is classed as not habitable then you need to move out,

and any C1 and he has to move you out until fixed.

does not matter what the law says, as there is usually some other law that allows them to do some thing like say sorry you need to move out.

Landlords don't have to find a tenant alternative accommodation if the house becomes uninhabitable. The landlord is only required to release a tenant from their contract if the house becomes uninhabitable.

Likewise a landlord is not required to reduce the rent and a tenant enters arrears if they decide to withold rent until something is repaired.

A landlord cannot evict a tenant during the initial term of a tenancy for no reason, as long as rent is paid on time in full they can't evict you. After the initial term of a tenancy, or after the date of the break clause if there is one, a no-fault eviction is possible, but is a lengthy legal process for the landlord.

Likewise a tenant cannot end a tenancy until after the initial term or break clause unless they have mutual agreement of the landlord.

 

[EricMark]

Reading @davesparks reply the question seems to be is the property habitable? If not then you can simply move out, if it is then it seems little you can do.

So it seems 26th August is when you find out. England, Scotland and Wales all require an EICR but not quite the same, Wales it seems only requires it for multi occupancy their point it seems is if they make it too hard to rent a property then it will cause homelessness so they want to strike a balance. Who can do an EICR also varies, Scotland seems to be most strict.

There is argument among sparks, the old PIR (periodic inspection report) had 4 codes, and code 4 said it did not comply with current regulations, but the new EICR (electrical installation condition report) dropped the code 4, and one is only suppose to say if dangerous (C1) might be dangerous with second fault (C2) recommend an upgrade (C3) so as the tenant your only interested in C1 or C2. With a C1 the person testing must make safe, be it turn off the supply or repair it does not matter, but no time allowed to fix it. With a C2 they are allowed time, think 28 days to fix it.

What seems to be a problem is what is considered as a C2, in theory if a house was safe in 1954 and nothing has been damaged or degraded it is still safe today. There are some things which do not follow that, with for example a TT supply (uses an earth rod) the use of powerline adaptors means it needs a type F RCD to ensure it trips, and in 1954 there were no powerline adaptors, so there are exceptions, but although what you show is bad, and likely does not comply with current BS7671 not sure if it is potentially dangerous.

Before the EICR needed to show no C2 codes for the house to be rented electrics used the current edition of BS7671 to guide them when coding, but it has been pointed out now it's a legal document they have to have insurance and other things that were optional and also need to know when the system was designed to use the BS7671 as guidance as which version is used depends on dates.

I am glad I have retired, the rules are getting too complex for my liking, I was trained in the days when we were professionals, and we used our skill to decide what was and what was not dangerous, today it seems we have to do everything by the book.

 

[davesparks]

What seems to be a problem is what is considered as a C2, in theory if a house was safe in 1954 and nothing has been damaged or degraded it is still safe today.

This is incorrect, the date of the original installation is irrelevant to the EICR, it is carried out in accordance with and to the current regulations.

There are many reasons an original install from 1954 could be given a C2 code without any damage or degradation.