solar thermal

[infinity]

Hi

I'm looking at adding an additional discipline to the MCS side of things.

I've been thinking that down this way (Hampshire) the best option would be to look into solar thermal.

Only problem is, I don't know a thing about plumbing!
So I was just wondering how many of you install solar thermal?
Is it viable?
Is there a lot of interest in it? Especially with the announced RHI,

Would it even be fees able for me to become accredited in it with know plumbing skills? Obviously I would get a plumber involved and complete the relevant course to install the systems.

I would love to get involved in something else so it's not just pv but don't want to jump into it feet first!

Thanks for any input.

 

[Eco Deal]

I think it will be worth going for it , I have applied to add this to the accreditations we have. think of the time solar kicked off how many none electrical minded people set up and made money so why can you not do it with solar thermal? all you need is to employ a gas safe plumber with knowledge of the systems and go for MCS with it.

 

[solarsavings]

Solar thermal is more involved than pv, which is simple by comparison.

You need a good plumber, doesn't have to be gassafe but he/she will need to know their way around a heating/hot water system. And perhaps someone that has done a bpec or similar solar course so they have some experience of solar thermal or you will have trouble.

I think it's too early to see enquiries pick up as a result of the rhi announcement but it could just be us that hasn't seen it.

 

[Gavin A]

Inquiries won't come in as a result of RHI until at least installers have got their heads around it and updated websites etc.

I still can't even work out how the RHI payments are supposed to be calculated in practice, never mind updating the website, quote templates etc for it, so I'm glad there's not been an overnight rush of inquiries.

 

[Eco Deal]

We had two call for green deal reports for older systems fitted today !

 

[TedM]

Presume you mean existing solar thermal systems that have been fitted since 15th July 2009 and now the owners want to think about claiming RHI on them?

All along DECC have said that this is only possible if the system/installer was MCS registered at the time of installation (same as PV and FiT) but also that the homeowner needed to have 2 installer quotes (quotes included SAP calcs) so that there was some check on the performance claims.

I don't know what the latest DECC stance is on this though (haven't had time to read all the recent docs - too many other things on the go).

 

[Gavin A]

don't think the 2 installer quote thing is still in there for pre-existing installs anyway, but not sure - also not had chance to fully read it all.

 

[Eco Deal]

one was a pre install , other for one in pipe line, I don't see the link between green deal report & the RHI at the moment apart from pushing numbers up.

 

[TedM]

Previously DECC's proposal was that all 'green tick' recommended measures from a GDA would need to be implemented before a property would be eligible for RHI payments. Also a GDA report was required to claim the RHPP grants.

This is what DECC now (12th July) say:

Before applying for RHI support, all applicants, including legacy applicants, will need to ensure that:

a) a Green Deal Assessment (GDA) has been carried out to find out which energy efficiency measures are cost-effective for the property;
b) loft insulation (to 250mm) and cavity wall insulation have been installed where these measures are recommended by the GDA; and
c) the applicant is able to provide proof of installation through either the Energy Performance Certificate (EPC) completed as part of the GDA, or where the GDA shows the required loft and cavity wall insulation is yet to be installed, an updated EPC is obtained following installation (or in exceptional circumstances, valid evidence is provided to Ofgem proving why installation was not possible)

So there will be lots more GDARs to be done.

DECC reserve the right to review this in 2015 and possibly move back to requiring all 'green tick' measures to be implemented.

 

[Gavin A]

they really need to have a caveat in there to allow for it to be signed off as not being possible if a cavity wall installation company has assessed it as not being suitable - no way does a green deal assessor have that capability.

 

[Eco Deal]

No the green deal adviser just gathers data only , we dont get drills out etc. plus they are not experts in each measure either so gavin yes your right maybe a chartered surveyours report will satisfy.

 

[infinity]

Thanks for the info,

i think having no experience in this field it may be difficult, But im thinking i could become MCS accredited in the area, get an decent plumber onboard and trained to carry out the installs.

Maybe i could even go on a course to understand how it all works and to be able to survey properties etc.

 

[Worcester]

Just visited a large ex church property ('The Grange') no way can you apply EWI (very large sandstone building), IWI would ruin the decorations and cost an absolute fortune, ideal for Biomass (current heating estimated at £4,500/yr) , yet EWI / IWI is a grean deal tick item on the EPC (just been bought by my client and it's got a D on the EPC created for the sales, I don't know how !!!) - crazy !!

 

[Worcester]

The announcement of the domestic RHI has certainly perked up new enquiries for us, so we're continuing with our training programmes.

I found this piece of information amusing though as part of DECC rules for claiming the RHPP for heat pumps the Installer has to complete a fairly comprehensive check list detailing how it was designed, the parameters used, how it was installed etc. - the amusing bit - It's a checklist prepared by the Energy Saving Trust (EST) NOT MCS / Gemserve

 

[The Solar King]

If you are going to go down this path, training will be vital. Start point would be something like BPEC ST course. Choose your training centre carefully. I found I already knew more than the trainers.... Also consider aspects such as training in the Water Bye Laws, and Conservation of Energy. A working knowledge of the requirements for unvented cylinders will be helpful as will knowledge regarding thermal stores. Understanding the interaction with other heating technologies would be an advantage. ST is more complex than you first think. Like PV you can very often get away with it without in depth knowledge. As you learn more and more you wonder about the first jobs you did!

With regard to the Domestic RHI, the GD ticks could be a bug bear. Just make sure you have your own tame independent GDA who understands what the job is. The performance output calculation will come from the revision of MIS3001. It will be based on SAP 2012 but have one or two departures from it, mainly in the area of hot water use. It will not use the floor area calculation but will be based on occupancy. If you look at SAP2012 you will find there is now a variable for non-use of electric showers. This will also be taken in to account and as I understand will not be limited back as it is in SAP. Use of electric showers will reduce the hot water requirement. There is also a bath only option! I understand there will be two figures in the output calculation, one for renewable heat input to the tank on which RHI will be paid and one for energy saving which can be used to calculate the cost saving in fuel not used. The latter figure will take into account the seasonal efficiency of the backup fuel used. Detail of this was in the draft of MIS3001 put out for consultation last year.

Expect more information when the revised version of MIS3001 is published late this year or early next