Spur off a 3036 protected circuit?

[alanl]

I've been asked to add a spur (or possibly extend the ring) on a BS 3036 protected circuit.
Dead basic job, just needs an extra socket in a bedroom.

From my understanding, this can be put down as a Minor Works, but all sockets now have to be RCD protected to comply with the 17th, so if I'm putting in a new socket, does this circuit have to be modified to have RCD protection?

If so, then would it be classed acceptable to move the existing socket 6 feet to the other side of the room, without adding RCD protection?

(the reason being, the customer will not pay for a CU upgrade)

On a similar point, the TN-C-S incomer has a 10mm cable from the MET to the Fusebox. Do I need to upgrade this to 16mm when adding the socket?

Thanks
Alan.

 

[Octopus]

I agree, this is sillyness. Fitting a socket in an upstairs bedroom in a house where there are NO RCD's is simply madness. Lets hope the regs update clears this up because this sillyness is what allows pub electricians to thrive.

Ok. The sentance should read "fitting a RCD socket in an upstairs bedroom in a house where there are NO RCD's is simple madness". I.E. I don't think that a new socket in this situation needs a RCD.

Thats my view. Tin hat on.

PS. Sorry should have read post more carefully!

 

[Deleted member 9648]

I agree.....sorry to jump on you a bit,misinterpreted your post...but we appear to be singing the same tune!!

 

[Octopus]

I agree.....sorry to jump on you a bit,misinterpreted your post...but we appear to be singing the same tune!!

.

No problem, no offence was "felt".

 

[SirKit Breaker]

This is a classic case of a "Grey area". Yes BS7671 is not statutory, but unfortunately Part P is, and this states that BS7671 is the benchmark to comply. This means we are stuck between a rock and a hard place once again.

I fully agree with all the post's telling the OP to do the job, because that is what i would do.

I have heard that in AM1 to BS7671:2008 we are going to be allowed to do this type of work, as the IET in their infinite wisdom have decided that we as Electricians are clever enough to be able to risk assess and install as required.

Cheers..........Howard

 

[Guest123]

Lets hope the regs update clears this up because this sillyness is what allows pub electricians to thrive.

It will.

 

[timo1]

I would fit an RCD socket you can get them for £16 and I feel more comfortable complying with the regs even if it does seem over the top. I have added the RCD at cost before now, usually when I explain why they are ok with the bit extra.

 

[pushrod]

I would fit an RCD socket you can get them for £16 and I feel more comfortable complying with the regs even if it does seem over the top. I have added the RCD at cost before now, usually when I explain why they are ok with the bit extra.

Unless you are surface mounting the cable to it you could still be going against BS7671.

 

[Guest123]

Wait another 4 weeks, no issue at all then.

 

[paturback]

Yes it seems chapter 52 Amendment 1 introduces exceptions for selv or pelv and minor works so after several years of being told sockets need to be RCD protected we are now being told its not required! Unless its not minor works or selv or pelv that is, confused we soon will be.
Here's Cronshaw's Webinar explaining the changes is it just me or do i detect a note of reticence?

 

[Bradzz]

Draft for Public Comment - BS 7671/AMD 1 - IET Electrical



right click on the left side off screen to down load a DPC copy

 

[timo1]

Unless you are surface mounting the cable to it you could still be going against BS7671.

Hi Pushrod, not doubting you but why would that be? I thought the RCD protecting the cable overcame the issues of cable depth etc.. In any case I would have said it is safer than none at all?

 

[pushrod]

Hi Pushrod, not doubting you but why would that be? I thought the RCD protecting the cable overcame the issues of cable depth etc.. In any case I would have said it is safer than none at all?

I agree that rcd protecting the spur/cable would be fine, but you mentioned fitting an "rcd socket" in your post - if it was just something like THIS
then that would not protect the cable to it. New cable should, according to BS7671, be either deeper than 50mm or surface mounted, etc, or have rcd protection. ie normally chased in cable would still be going against the regs even though the socket was rcd protected and so ok An rcd fcu like THIS would probs be the better choice for the job.

 

[iconnect]

Thats what I was going to say RCD spur then feed normal socket from that then its all good !! The RCD socket would only protect plug onwards,the bonding just note on cert.

 

[MFHEng]

My understanding is that the new regs due out soon will be addressing this issue in order to prevent this sort of sillyness.

The relaxing of the standard to allow extra (non rcd)sockets to be fitted to non rcd circuits and mark it on the minor works as risk assessed, has been removed from AMD1 due to sustained objections from several JPEL64 member organisations.

The socket in question will require RCD protection

 

[Engineer54]

So, ....the nonsense an silliness will continue!! Who are these Wally's??