Spurs from a Junction box on a Ring

[freedomrun]

Hi, this is my first post so hope all who read my question understand it OK. Been to look at a job, Ring Final Circuit on 32A mcb all cables are with 2.5 T&E. The Circuit has 3 single socket outlets in a bedroom & are connected to 1 suitable Junction Box at the same point on the ring (3 spurs from 1 JB). I cannot access the JB without taking up the bedroom floor. My question is, a JB on a Ring Final is acceptable to connect 1 unfused Spur as per P.362 APP 15 in 17th Regs & P.54 IEE guide (Green Book) - BUT can the JB have more than one unfused spur taken from it at the same point in the ring & still comply as the circuit i have described above has 3 spurs from the same JB - is this acceptable under 17th Regs as i cannot find this answered within the forum or in my books. This may well be common on many old installs, but this JB with 3 spurs from it, is the first i have found to date. Many thanks in advance to any advice on this. My apologies if already discussed, let me know where to find within forum please.

 

[ezzzekiel]

no one spur per outlet or unlimited per fused outlet

 

[Spudnik]

Tricky one this and i have wondered this myself.

As you say, its not a lot different than having 3 JB's on the ring next to each other, with a spur from each.

My only concern would be successful termination if all three were from the same JB.

Five 2.5's in a 30A terminal is a tight squeeze.

 

[freedomrun]

Tricky one this and i have wondered this myself.

As you say, its not a lot different than having 3 JB's on the ring next to each other, with a spur from each.

My only concern would be successful termination if all three were from the same JB.

Five 2.5's in a 30A terminal is a tight squeeze.

Yes, i agree a tight squeeze indeed and if i could gain access to the JB, i would certainly ammend. But my Test results are suitable, so i have to take it that the connections within the JB are good. I know it is not good practice, but i take it from your answer that more than one 2.5 T&E unfused spur from a single JB on a Ring final is within the Regs if my Test results comply?

 

[cornburn]

I came across this the other week and immediately thought I'd have to change it, then thought that no cable is at risk of overload at any point, it's no different from spurring off the same cable a foot further round. If terminations look good and reliable then I would leave alone. Also picked up some 5 pin wago connectors last week which would do this job perfectly. That must be what they're designed for too

 

[nick611]

it say,s one spur for each outlet.not one spur from each outlet.so three seperate spur,s from one jb no problem.what the regs are saying is dont have 10 sockets on a ring and 11 spurs not only run one spur from each point

 

[telectrix]

as you have only one socket on each spur, i would say that although not ideal, it is acceptable. you are , as i saw in a previous post, not liable to overload the spurs.

 

[WayneL]

as you have only one socket on each spur, i would say that although not ideal, it is acceptable. you are , as i saw in a previous post, not liable to overload the spurs.

Not liable to overload spurs, but could be overloading the ring - should really be trying to spread the load on a ring final evenly.

JB also needs to be accessible - so no good in it's present position.

 

[telectrix]

better to use maintenance free, wacos or hellermanns. depends on if you can access the JB

 

[pushrod]

Intrigued to know how you know it is from a single JB if you can't get to it - now if you have some diagrams for the installation that really would be a first !!!

 

[bugsy]

Its complant wiring wise but if it's a jd with screw terminals you need to acces it and you say you can't therefore it's non compliant

 

[freedomrun]

Thanks for all these replies, more than i thought i would get! The job is in a Bungalow, these usually have quite large voids under the floor area for ventilation and heating & due to this i could gain access under the floor in the hall. To cut a long story short, i was able to see under the floor of the Bedroom where i suspected a JB would be with my Torch, but could not get to it. Waynel is correct in his post and the JB must be accessable to comply, this can be done by taking up the bedroom floor boards over the JB, the customer is not to keen on this option and as my Test results are OK, - i will make a note of the JB's position on my Cert for future ref, am i correct in thinking this would then comply as long as the JB's position is recorded on the cert - in the end any JB can be accessed in a domestic property under wooden floors as long as the position is noted, only those JB's incased in cement or plaster are outside the regs. Any thoughts on this??

 

[Spudnik]

You could argue that any JB under a floor is accessible.

 

[bugsy]

only that you havent checked it because you can't access it and if you can do so

 

[pushrod]

You haven't installed the JB, it tests out ok and you are marking its position on a cert - can't see that there is anything to be concerned about