Spurs from kitchen?

[Donald Lindsay]

Hi there,

I'm new, so apologies if this is an obvious question. I'm coming to you guys as my Dad is in Australia for a month, I don't want to phone him on the beach if I can avoid it...

A client is asking if I can install two unfused (double socket) spurs in his flat, one in the hall and one in the bedroom for his girlfriends hair dryer. It's in Scotland, so to begin with he'll need to call Edinburgh council about a building warrant I guess.

Beyond that, my question is this - he's hoping I can spur these sockets through the interior (hollow plasterboard) wall, off the back of two kitchen counter sockets that just happen to be perfectly placed for the job. So what's the problem - looks straightforward?

It may just be my imagination, as I can't track down anything in the regs to say I can't do this, however the kitchen ring is a separate circuit to the general ring main in the flat, and common sense says that if I spur a bedroom and a hall socket off it, that's going to be unsafe for someone coming in after me - they could isolate the ring main, open one of those sockets and get a belt, obviously.

Sorry if this is an obvious one - if I can't spur the sockets in this way, it's going to be fiendishly tricky to get the sockets where he (I mean, she) wants them!

Could I spur, and then re-name the circuits on the board - 'Ring 1' and 'Ring 2'? With a note giving details of what they supply? Seems untidy, and a bit lazy?

 

[IQ Electrical]

What you're proposing is acceptable as far as BS 7671:2008 is concerned, a note at the consumer unit would be sensible.

I take it you understand the requirements regarding rcd protection to socket outlets/cables in walls etc.?

 

[SPARTYKUS]

As IQ says its fine in fact alot of sense in having sockets mixed up, so to speak , especially with all the slant on inconvenience in the 17th.

If u do your idea, and the house ring has a fault, well they still have sockets in the hall

 

[telectrix]

nothing wrong in what you propose. as long as it's only 1 socket outlet spurred from each existing socket. and as !Q says, RCD protection exists on the kitchen sockets.

 

[Donald Lindsay]

thanks guys!

thanks for your advice!

Kitchen and flat main both RCD protected (it's a new build), and the drop from kitchen socket to spur will be about 1' through the hollow wall. How would you guys protect the cable inside the wall, if at all?

Don

 

[Donald Lindsay]

And does anyone have experience of building warrants in Edinburgh? Are they likely to require one for a couple of spurs? Best to phone them on Monday about it I guess.

 

[Hawk81]

Re: thanks guys!

thanks for your advice!

Kitchen and flat main both RCD protected (it's a new build), and the drop from kitchen socket to spur will be about 1' through the hollow wall. How would you guys protect the cable inside the wall, if at all?

Don

If there is already an RCD on the circuit then the cable is protected.

 

[Kenny.]

Hi Donald, Have a look here Re Warrant http://www.esc.org.uk/fileadmin/user_upload/documents/industry/downloads/ScotBuilRegs.pdf

 

[Donald Lindsay]

Thanks Kenny - looks like it does.

 

[SMB]

Hi there,

I'm new, so apologies if this is an obvious question. I'm coming to you guys as my Dad is in Australia for a month, I don't want to phone him on the beach if I can avoid it...

A client is asking if I can install two unfused (double socket) spurs in his flat, one in the hall and one in the bedroom for his girlfriends hair dryer. It's in Scotland, so to begin with he'll need to call Edinburgh council about a building warrant I guess.

Beyond that, my question is this - he's hoping I can spur these sockets through the interior (hollow plasterboard) wall, off the back of two kitchen counter sockets that just happen to be perfectly placed for the job. So what's the problem - looks straightforward?

It may just be my imagination, as I can't track down anything in the regs to say I can't do this, however the kitchen ring is a separate circuit to the general ring main in the flat, and common sense says that if I spur a bedroom and a hall socket off it, that's going to be unsafe for someone coming in after me - they could isolate the ring main, open one of those sockets and get a belt, obviously.

Sorry if this is an obvious one - if I can't spur the sockets in this way, it's going to be fiendishly tricky to get the sockets where he (I mean, she) wants them!

Could I spur, and then re-name the circuits on the board - 'Ring 1' and 'Ring 2'? With a note giving details of what they supply? Seems untidy, and a bit lazy?

I don't think there is anything to say you can not do it.

However, it is definately bad practise. (as you pointed out).

Two different socket circuits in one room could be very dangerous (for people working on the installation in the future)..

What I have done in the past when two different feeds have been in a down stair 2 gang switch for the stair lighting is to place a note within the enclosure.

I doubt thats the way forward, but nor is two separately isolated sockets in one room.

 

[brucelee]

also you will have to provide fire barriers behind sockets to help prevent spread of fire think this was a question in the part p questions i did if they in the same void which they will be if back to back

 

[SMB]

To have two seperate circuits on a ring main in one room is dangerous unless it is very obviously warned that that is the case.

Its bad practice.

 

[somersetsparks]

Is it really a problem SMB, many new installations that I have done have alternate sockets on different rings so as to avoid complete loss of all sockets in one room, and this is on big offices some of them government buildings.

 

[IQ Electrical]

I agree it's bad practice in a domestic situation but nothing more than that, I'd expect even Mr DIY plugs a kettle in as his 'safe isolation procedure' before opening up an outlet!

 

[somersetsparks]

Yeah I suppose its a bit different, but certainly acceptable and not at all dangerous, you wouldn't do it from new but you certainly wouldn't rip a house to bits to avoid doing it IMO. Like has been suggested I would change the circuit labels in the DB to just say sockets for both circuits and maybe leave a note in the board.