Spurs from kitchen?

[Donald Lindsay]

Hi there,

I'm new, so apologies if this is an obvious question. I'm coming to you guys as my Dad is in Australia for a month, I don't want to phone him on the beach if I can avoid it...

A client is asking if I can install two unfused (double socket) spurs in his flat, one in the hall and one in the bedroom for his girlfriends hair dryer. It's in Scotland, so to begin with he'll need to call Edinburgh council about a building warrant I guess.

Beyond that, my question is this - he's hoping I can spur these sockets through the interior (hollow plasterboard) wall, off the back of two kitchen counter sockets that just happen to be perfectly placed for the job. So what's the problem - looks straightforward?

It may just be my imagination, as I can't track down anything in the regs to say I can't do this, however the kitchen ring is a separate circuit to the general ring main in the flat, and common sense says that if I spur a bedroom and a hall socket off it, that's going to be unsafe for someone coming in after me - they could isolate the ring main, open one of those sockets and get a belt, obviously.

Sorry if this is an obvious one - if I can't spur the sockets in this way, it's going to be fiendishly tricky to get the sockets where he (I mean, she) wants them!

Could I spur, and then re-name the circuits on the board - 'Ring 1' and 'Ring 2'? With a note giving details of what they supply? Seems untidy, and a bit lazy?

 

[SMB]

Yeah...well...in different situations stick a sticker saying 400volts between these outlets.

I know there is nothing to say don't do it in a domestic environment.

I also know that its very bad practice.

Label what your doing is the way forward I spose.

Safety.

 

[SMB]

Yeah I suppose its a bit different, but certainly acceptable and not at all dangerous, you wouldn't do it from new but you certainly wouldn't rip a house to bits to avoid doing it IMO. Like has been suggested I would change the circuit labels in the DB to just say sockets for both circuits and maybe leave a note in the board.

Your right.

Any Electrician who is worth his / her salt will test the outlet before touching copper.

But....in a domestic environment....you isolate the sockets for the your front room and you expect all the sockets to be dead in the front room?

 

[Hawk81]

Your right.

Any Electrician who is worth his / her salt will test the outlet before touching copper.

But....in a domestic environment....you isolate the sockets for the your front room and you expect all the sockets to be dead in the front room?

I have learned not to take anything for granted. Isolate and test before doing anything. When you expect you have the correct breaker off for all that's when you learn the hard way.

 

[somersetsparks]

Yeah Its a fair point, I don't really have much domestic experience, well only from moonlighting
My old man just turns the main switch before touching anything electrical, all dates back to the time he changed a pendant and thought it would be fine if he just turned the light switch off! lol

 

[SMB]

I'm fick....but I know that in a house you do not have two ring main circuits in one room. Bad practice.

 

[SMB]

Hawk, you have spoken sence.

Don't take anything for granted because there will always be idiots who will introduce two ring mains into one small domestic room.

Belt.

 

[somersetsparks]

Haha, it wouldn't be the first time such a word has been spoken about me!

 

[Des 56]

If a room has sockets fed from two diiferent circuits.the board labelled up correctly to identify the circuits and location,why is it bad practice for sockets in the same room to be on different circuits ?
It may be "un common practice",but as far as safety of installation is concerned,its neither here nor there

We regularly rant on about incompetents doing electrical work,yet as soon as something differs from the expected norm,it is a danger and shouldn't be done

An electrician has procedures of safe isolation before working on an installation and should not be in any danger
A potcher shouldn't touch the installation without sufficient knowlege and can t be fully protected from his ignorance
There is nothng wrong or of bad practice in the ops proposal

 

[Donald Lindsay]

Thanks for all your input - I've plenty of time to consider this, as Edinburgh do want the flat owner to apply for a building warrant.