Spurs off a ring

[kingeri]

Back to basics here, but just want to check I'm not going mad. Was installing a circuit for a boiler yesterday on a new build (it had been accidentally omitted apparently) , and I noticed there was another 'spark' working in the living room. I idled over and asked what he was up to. He said he was adding more sockets as only three had been installed initially. I assumed he would be extending the ring....easy enough to do as loads of floorboards still not fitted. However, he seemed to be using MF JBs under the floorboards. I noticed that the one he had just done had four cables going into it. When he'd gone I had a closer look, and he'd broken into the ring and had two spurs coming out of the JB to double sockets. I've just seen him and asked him about it, and he's adamant it's fine to do this from a JB but not from a socket. I think not! Anyone?

 

[chrish_1977]

I would agree with you on this one, sounds like he was just lazy if the floor was still able to be pulled up

 

[dean.diy]

morning Kingeri, maybe he returned and replaced the JB with a joist
mounted fcu.

 

[Guitarist]

Depends on the MF unit imo. If it's one of the Line units rated at 32A in an MF situation, and each core is in its own terminal, then you cannot overload the connector or the cable as the MCB is protecting it. May not be ideally designed, but it's safe.

 

[Fin170]

Might be Ok but spurs and junction boxes on a new build (or rewire or anything requiring a complete new ring)? Awful practice imo

 

[Brightspark2]

Might be Ok but spurs and junction boxes on a new build (or rewire or anything requiring a complete new ring)? Awful practice imo

Isnt it just...A new build with JB's in!!...lazy work, done as cheap as possible...

 

[Octopus]

JB under the the floor with 4 cables in a new build where it could have been done properly.,

Not accessible.

Sloppy bad practice.

Not in the rules IMHO

 

[Deleted member 26818]

We don't spur twice from a socket, for two reasons.
One is because generally the CCC of the cable will be insufficient.
The other is because too great a load will be placed at one point in the ring.
Installing two spurs as described would entail that neither of the above reasons would be applicable.
There will be two sockets connected to a single point on the ring, just as if a socket had been spured from an existing socket.
The two sockets are not daisy chained, as such the CCC of each cable will be sufficient.

Yes poor practice, especially on a new build.

 

[Guitarist]

Agree, poor practice if at all avoidable. However, providing that the connection is suitable (such as the Line products 32A MF block with 4 connections each for LNE), there will be no overloading of any cable or connector and imo better than having 2 seperate boxes. That said, I would be concerned if a certain popular push-in connector was used which is only rated at 24A, plus needs to be downrated further under MF conditions!

 

[bigbaddave]

Bit lazy IMO. New build and access to split the ring id be doing exactly that..

 

[Guitarist]

Bit lazy IMO. New build and access to split the ring id be doing exactly that..

We've established that. I read the OP as whether it breaks any rules.

 

[Darkwood]

Reg 433.1.5 last sentence (under intended use , the load current in any part of the circuit is unlikely to exceed for long periods of time the current carrying capacity (Iz) of the cable)

What he has done IMHO is poor design although he could argue the above point that is poses no risk it still is down right lazy attitude on a new build with access to cabling, at the cost of 1 extra JB and a extra short leg of 2.5mm he could have effectively just enlarged the ring.....

Id have had a strong word with him myself had i seen this, there's no excuse for choosing this method when it was simple enough to extend the ring.

 

[Guest111]

Cant see anything wrong regs wise in fact the situation described is often found in older houses,I've even seen them take 2 feeds from a jb and send one to a socket upstairs and the other downstairs even though the house had 2 rings.My personal preference was always to extend the ring,even on an older property after all if you are running 1 cable it's no harder to run 2 and not much dearer.Shear laziness in my opinion.

 

[gigawatt]

Err....?

526.3 Every connection shall be accessible for inspection, testing and maintenance except for the following:
(i) A joint designed to be buried in the ground
(ii) A compound-fi lled or encapsulated joint
(iii) A connection between a cold tail and the heating element as in ceiling heating, fl oor heating or a trace heating system
(iv) A joint made by welding, soldering, brazing or appropriate compression tool
(v) Joints or connections made in equipment by the manufacturer of the product and not intended to be inspected or maintained
(vi) Equipment complying with BS 5733 for maintenance-free accessory and marked with the symbol and installed in accordance with the manufacturer’s instructions.

 

[Darkwood]

Err....?

526.3 Every connection shall be accessible for inspection, testing and maintenance except for the following:
(i) A joint designed to be buried in the ground
(ii) A compound-fi lled or encapsulated joint
(iii) A connection between a cold tail and the heating element as in ceiling heating, fl oor heating or a trace heating system
(iv) A joint made by welding, soldering, brazing or appropriate compression tool
(v) Joints or connections made in equipment by the manufacturer of the product and not intended to be inspected or maintained
(vi) Equipment complying with BS 5733 for maintenance-free accessory and marked with the symbol and installed in accordance with the manufacturer’s instructions.

Why have you put this?

The OP clearly states the lad was using an MF joint box...what point are you trying to make.