Supplier's Main Fuse ID

[Malc]

I have tried on a number of occasions to obtain the BS(EN), Type, Rated Current and Short-circuit capacity for the supplier's main fuse from the electricity supplier. This is when there is no external identification of the fuse contained in the tamper proof sealed unit.

The answer I receive from United Utilities is that they no longer store this information for domestic premises and that it requires a "survey visit" to establish the type and value of the fuse.

Besides not being able to assess the adequacy of supply for the current and proposed usage I have two questions in relation to this:-

1. Is this now the practice by other suppliers?
2. What should be quoted on Installation and Inspection Reports?

Any ideas..... please

 

[acat]

Im pretty sure they are legally required to provide that information free of charge going to have a look and see if I can find it for you.


Chris

 

[acat]

Page 12 of Building Regs its Section 28 of the ESQC Regs 2002.

Lim or 60/80 for reports shows you have no access


Chris

 

[Malc]

Nice one Chris. Just looked up Section 28.

For other readers this is what it says.....

Information to be provided on request

28. A distributor shall provide, in respect of any existing or proposed consumer's installation which is connected or is to be connected to his network, to any person who can show a reasonable cause for requiring the information, a written statement of -

​

(a) the maximum prospective short circuit current at the supply terminals;

​

(b) for low voltage connections, the maximum earth loop impedance of the earth fault path outside the installation;

​

(c) the type and rating of the distributor's protective device or devices nearest to the supply terminals;

​

(d) the type of earthing system applicable to the connection; and

​

(e) the information specified in regulation 27(1),

which apply, or will apply, to that installation.

 

[nickblake]

I have contacted the electrical safety council regarding this matter ,Most of the newr cutouts are labled but are always 100 amp 1361 type 2 and they are as youd expect sealed ,so what i do on this occasion is to mark down whats written on the fuse carrier and in the box limitation " supply fuse as labled no seals have been broken " i know dam well its more than likly a 60 or 80 amp very rare a 100 amp ,i imformed the ESC and advised that electrical suppliers label the fuse, capacity and type as whats been installed in the fuse, well at the end of the day if we dont its a mark against us !! oh not heard a sausage from the ESC

 

[acat]

All talk and no action springs to mind


Chris

 

[bugsy]

I've had the same replies from DNO so I tell that if I dont get an answer within 7 days Ill pull the service cut out and if they don't I do

 

[Des 56]

Just cut the seal,sorry just pull the fuse which had no sea,l and all is revealed

The amount of cut out fuses that are unsealed beggars belief

I have never been in a situation where I didn't know the fuse rating
I must be very lucky compared to some of you

 

[Malc]

I got this reply from ECA

1. - I am not aware of this practice in other areas, but I must say that the suppliers seem to be doing as they please at the moment.
2. - If you cannot identify the actual rating, then you should estimate the rating and record that is what has been done, and the reason.

So it seems we now have to assume that the cut-out is suitable for the present usage of the circuits..... if it hasn't blown so far... But if you were expanding the installation with heavier requirements you would need to force a visit by supplier (at their expense) to establish the rating and capacity before making any alterations.

Thanks everyone a very useful discussion.

 

[roukel01]

I agree with Des, I've always cut the seals and opened to fuse holders to see what fuse is inside. Can't see any reason why you shouldn't be doing it. Alot of new meters have a built in isolator with a seal on and a sticker that says something like "this seal should be cut by competant electricians only" so the way I see it is if we're ok to cut that seal and isolate the supply, we're ok to do the same with the fuses.

 

[mogga]

no reason to cut the seals apart from the possibility of prosecution as tampering with supplier equipment is an offence and the seals are there to stop pilfering sods so when mr meter reader comes along and sees a cut seal he assumes you have tampered with the meter and hence prosecution may follow

 

[roukel01]

no reason to cut the seals apart from the possibility of prosecution as tampering with supplier equipment is an offence and the seals are there to stop pilfering sods so when mr meter reader comes along and sees a cut seal he assumes you have tampered with the meter and hence prosecution may follow

No offence but what a load of rubbish, I've always cut seals with no problems, I've even been around when the supplier has come to connect my new tails, all they do is reseal the fuse when they come. There isn't a problem doing it, if you're a competent electrician and you're regestered with a scheme they don't have a problem in you doing it. (well at least in my area!)

 

[mogga]

http://www.scottish-southern.co.uk/...reRemovalReplacementCompanyCutOutsv106pdf.pdf note the bit about Abuse and revenue protection

 

[smillsey]

so how do you get round it then mogga?

wizz money down the drain?

 

[Pleng]

I've recently read the ESC Switched On magazine which has a piece on this subject. Basically the ESC have been trying to get the electrical supply industry to change it's policy which currently forbids competent persons other than those employed by the suppliers to cut seals and remove fuses. This request has just recently been denied by the electrical supply industry.
Because of this myself and the other electricians in the company I work for always mark the characteristics of primary supply overcurrent protective devices as LIM on PIRs and EIC's. On the EIC we mention that we were unable to gain access to the overcurrent device in the "comments on existing installation" box on the first page. The NICEIC area engineer has no problem with us doing this and says it's best way in an awkward situation.
When it comes to isolating the supply, we order a double pole isolator from the suppliers before the work commences.
Hope this answers a few questions.