Suspected dodgy cert - how to proceed?

[SW1970]

Just got back from a survey for a quote for outside socket for family friend. Did usual check of earthing arrangement. Discovered gas and water main protective bonding are both connected at MET, run to intended destinations by point of entry of gas and water, but are left coiled up and not connected (both coils not visible until I had a rummage - one below a floorboard, other not visible behind a kitchen unit), and there's no BS951 clamps present. Friend moved in three years ago and house had a refurb by vendor (I think a buy-refurb-sell vendor) just prior to moving in, including CU upgrade. Looks like installation sparks has signed off and cleared off without finishing the job properly, or maybe it was a dodgy cert.

Friend has original building surveyors report and installation certs. Haven't yet seen these documents but will tomorrow. I'm going to do the remedials (not a big job after all!) so I can proceed with the outside socket works. Question is, if these documents are inadequate, and I suspect they will be, what are thoughts on recommendations to client about attempting to recover costs from either the original surveyor or the sparks or both? Am I barking up wrong tree or do you think there might be some mileage in it? Friend is bothered about the principles and now has a concern about rest of installation. Might be looking at a PIR which could possibly be costed back to certifier. As it happens CU has kitchen sockets and upstairs sockets on non RCD side of the board. One kitchen socket is right by back door which could be reasonably be assumed to power outside equipment (and is in fact). Not sure of date on cert yet, so there's potentially a breach of 16th edition 471-16-01 or 17th equivalent 411.3.3 so it looks like there's a second point of concern with original cert. Thanks loads for your advice, SW.

 

[electromonkey]

I've encountered this a couple of times in the past and in all honesty, chasing it up and trying to sort things out just turns in to a real pain. I put a post on here "kitchen Kuffufle" a few months back. The sparks who did the "dodgy" work, which was certified turned up at the customer's house when I was working there and it made for an interesting exchange of words.

I'd tell your friend/customer to put their energies in to fixing what you have found and probably carry out a PIR as you have suggested. These things have a way of turning ugly when confronting people directly.

If your customer feels so aggrieved that they feel they want to do something about it, you could take photo's of your findings and if you find the original cert, you could forward it all on to the companies registration body along with a letter of complaint.

 

[telectrix]

the complaint would have to come from the home owner, backed up by your findings.

 

[SimpleSimon]

It is a real pain to follow these types of quieries up.
But like electromonkey has said, find the governing body in question (if there is one) and chase the complaint through them. They are obliged to put it right under no extra cost under Part P, but after three years this can't be proved!

 

[electromonkey]

the complaint would have to come from the home owner, backed up by your findings.

Agreed. I didn't word the last part as well as I could have!

 

[SW1970]

Thanks folks; I'll post again if customer wants to kick up a fuss with scheme operator.

 

[SW1970]

So I get to see the paperwork today. What a joke. NICEIC green certificate signed by a "non approved electrician" who happens to leave main protective bonding disconnected. Hmmm. Can NICEIC green certificates be trusted? (I'm going to start a thread with that subject). Building surveyor has spotted (in Sept 2008) that gas bonding was disconnected (easy catch being fully visible), but misses water bonding because it was at the back of a cupboard (but clearly didn't look too hard). Consumer unit was installed and cert signed May 2008, 6 weeks before 17th comes into effect. CU is to 16th and most socket circuits aren't on RCD. BUT, there's no supplementary bonding in bathroom either. What a pl0nker. Interestingly, this "electrician" is showing today as a Domestic Installer on the NICEIC website.

Gently explained to friend that they have a good case with both sparks and surveyor. Outcome was friend doesn't want the hassle of complaining about someone who is associated with the refurb guy who "swears a lot". Probably the right approach having read comments above. Friend is getting low pricing from me because I'm a good guy and keen to facilitate the original job I was asked to quote on, but she's amazed that this can happen in the first place. I'm going to start a thread called Can NICEIC green certificates be trusted? Thanks for your thoughts above.

 

[topquark]

Just ensure that you capture the work you do (and hence are responsible for) in full on your cert.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

So I get to see the paperwork today. What a joke. NICEIC green certificate signed by a "non approved electrician" who happens to leave main protective bonding disconnected. Hmmm. Can NICEIC green certificates be trusted? (I'm going to start a thread with that subject). Building surveyor has spotted (in Sept 2008) that gas bonding was disconnected (easy catch being fully visible), but misses water bonding because it was at the back of a cupboard (but clearly didn't look too hard). Consumer unit was installed and cert signed May 2008, 6 weeks before 17th comes into effect. CU is to 16th and most socket circuits aren't on RCD. BUT, there's no supplementary bonding in bathroom either. What a pl0nker. Interestingly, this "electrician" is showing today as a Domestic Installer on the NICEIC website.

Gently explained to friend that they have a good case with both sparks and surveyor. Outcome was friend doesn't want the hassle of complaining about someone who is associated with the refurb guy who "swears a lot". Probably the right approach having read comments above. Friend is getting low pricing from me because I'm a good guy and keen to facilitate the original job I was asked to quote on, but she's amazed that this can happen in the first place. I'm going to start a thread called Can NICEIC green certificates be trusted? Thanks for your thoughts above.

so she`s concerned that this "sparks" swears a lot.....sounds like a classic case of bullying a client that is a bit "delicate" to me n all.....

 

[SW1970]

Good news today; just got the order for the outside socket and CU improvements using RCBOs so I can go away knowing the installation (and two young children) are a lot safer than how the previous guy left them. The comment back today was; you explained it so clearly that I understood what was wrong and why it needs to be fixed. Sometimes in this job there are days when you feel just great and this is one of them. Thanks for your guidance on this one.