Swa cable issue

[sparkydude]

Hi All, currently working on a contract where we are having pulled in cables from an old switchroom to a new one and then jointing the old to the new.

We stated we would be using cables from recognised manafacturers ie prysmain nexans draka etc. We ahve had our last delivery and have found we have had 2 cables from a company called TF Kable , which turns out to be a polish manafacturer who are sold in this country by The Copper Cable Company.

Now several things are not ringing true here, we asked fo a test cert for the cable to prove it has been tested and certified from the factory which they have supplied to us indicating the main drum our cuts were from was tested 18/04/2011 all good som far Except the cable is clearly stamped 2010 !!!

Now as this is a critical piece of the cabling i do not want to take any risks with these 2 cables so want to find out if there are any known issues with this make , or any problems people have had with them. If they were bootlaces i wouldnt mind, however they are 300mm 4cores 30m long each .


Anyone who can shed any light in this please reply


Thanks

Nick

 

[Knobhead]

Headquarters
ul. Wielicka 114; Krakow; malopolskie; 30-663
Tel: (0-32) 397-63-00
Financial Auditors: Price Waterhouse Coopers
http://www.tfkable.pl/?lang=2

Would seem to be a very big company

 

[sparkydude]

Yes i thought that they were a pretty big company , but the cable just looks crap, the markings are hot stamped into them by the looks of them . It just does not inspire me with confidence that they are issuing us with an incorrect test cert, and that along with the fact the cable could be over a year old prior to us installing it

 

[oxocube]

Check with the BASEC website whether they are approved.

 

[Knobhead]

You can only take this up with The Copper Cable Company or BASEC.
The fact The Copper Cable Company supplied you with cable outside your specification would indicate they should be first on your hit list.

 

[Knobhead]

Just had a look at the The Copper Cable Companies web site, their wholy owned by TFkable

“Cables are manufactured strictly in accordance with the appropriate British Standard Specifications and to VDE, IEC, UTE, SEN, UL, CSA and BASEC standards and are approved by the relevant Classifications Institutions. Full traceability is maintained by strict adherence to quality policies compliant with IS09001/2, whilst environmental policies are maintained by compliance with ISO14001.”

 

[sparkydude]

Thanks for the info Tony , the cable came from senate who ordered it from Cleveland cables apparently as thats who dropped them off. If the cert was for the right batch of cable i would not have any qualms about using it now i know they are a big company but it seems odd that its not. More digging required tomorrow me thinks . The buying department are going mental as they seem to think i am a trouble maker and causing the company uneccesary problems, but with the amount of counterfeit cablkes around i think i am just being cautious.

Nick

 

[Big n Daft]

Send it back and get the proper stuff, sounds dodgy to me

 

[sparkydude]

Im inclined to agree , however i do not think our buying department will be of the same oppinion. Its Drakas fault as they claimed they could not supply it in the time scale we needed and in the lengths we needed(according to senate ) LoL

 

[Knobhead]

From the BASEC site

It is a common misunderstanding that a cable is compliant with standards or even BASEC approved just because the supplier claims that it has been produced to a particular standard.
Cable marked with only a standard number should be treated with caution. It is probable that nobody independent of the manufacturer has examined that cable, and the claims made may be unreliable. Only cable marked with the “BASEC” name is BASEC approved, by demonstrating its compliance to the required standards.
Cable standards not only specify the dimensions and materials of a cable, they also require that a range of specific tests are undertaken to prove the construction and performance. Many non-approved cables have not been subject to the required tests.\


Unfortunately, it is often not until cables are installed, tested or used that an issue comes to light and by then it can be too late to avoid the potentially enormous costs of rectifying the situation.
If you are an installer, we advise the following precautionary steps and action to safeguard against the risk of installing cable which is sub-standard.
1. Prevention is better than cure. Instruct your procurement department to buy approved cable - not just the cheapest available but products which are BASEC approved. Then when the cable arrives check more specifically what they have purchased for you and inspect the product. Is it what was specified? On larger projects cable is sometimes purchased by the main contractor and issued to installers. In this situation make sure that the cable is as specified.
2. If there is found to be a problem with the cable, for example on system testing, don't immediately strip it out - it may be safe to leave in place - but instead seek advice.
3. Contact your trade body for e.g. ECA or inspectorate e.g., NICEIC on the installation aspects, or contact BASEC on cable quality issues. Please see contact details at the end of this section.
4. To help should there be any problems, keep records of the purchase, including reel ends with batch marking on, receipts from the wholesaler and any other sales records on your computer system, and a sample of the cable markings.
5. If you have scrap lengths, these can be sent to BASEC for checking and testing - 1.5m is good, longer is better. Based on the test results, BASEC will then advise on the best course of action.
Should BASEC find serious faults with a cable such that BASEC would under normal circumstances issue a product recall to the manufacturer, BASEC will contact the manufacturer and suppliers (importers / distributors / wholesalers) with the findings.
Dependent upon the response, BASEC may choose to make public details of the faulty cable and the parties responsible. This information will be made available to the trade media and professional organisations in the interests of public safety.

 

[sparkydude]

Well the cable IS marked as Basec , so upon receipt of a test cert from the manafacturers for the actual cable we have i have no choice but to install it.

Just hope for everyones sakes there are no issues with it esp as its for a hospital, failures could prove to be very very costly for all parties involved.

Thanks for all your input , i feel a bit better about the issue now


Nick

 

[gbert]

i am a buyer for a large electrical installation company. we have been buying from cleveland cable company for years, never had any problems. currently we are undertaking a large hotel project in heathrow. all the cable has to be basac approved. we bought cable from the copper cable company and i had to down load the basac certs for the client to approve before we could install it. TF kable have all the certs, probably bought copper cable company as a way into the british market

 

[Richard]

Out of interest, what sort of problems do you thing you would encounter? I imagine you are refering to issues, that your standard tests when you commishion probibly wouldn't show?

 

[sparkydude]

The major one being the quality of the copper used in the cable , causing a higher than expected resistance in the cable leading to overheating etc To some degree this might show up when doing an R1+R2 test but then again might Not .

 

[Knobhead]

Sparky, how did you go on with this? Any test cert's etc. Your tests OK?

 

[sparkydude]

Still awaiting the corerct test cert from them, but the cable is not due to be installed for a few weeks yet so will see what happens once we have it pulled in and terminated one end , prior to the jointing being carried out i will be testing it thats for sure.

Will update when i know more.

Nick

 

[SPARTYKUS]

Pretty tricky with such a large csa to detect high resistance (would have to have been cut with baking powder to show up)

 

[sparkydude]

sure your not getting confused with crack cocaine ??? thats normally cut with baking powder, swa tends to becut with a hacksaw :hair:

 

[Big n Daft]

The words Cleveland Cable sends a shiver down ones spine. Is it that all cable is cheap and nasty these days, or is it just me? Meeting certain standards does not mean its good to work with.

 

[Knobhead]

The words Cleveland Cable sends a shiver down ones spine. Is it that all cable is cheap and nasty these days, or is it just me? Meeting certain standards does not mean its good to work with.

Many years ago BICC Callender Cables was the Rolls Royce of cables, I must have put miles of it in. But occasionally things went wrong. It’s a fact of life.
The worse failing with BICC was to little French chalk being used as the cable was extruded, you would then have the inner serving stuck to the core insulation. It took care and knowledge of cable construction to get around it. But I’ve never taken a cable out due to it, the termination looks a mess but I never had one fail.