switch/socket height advice

[gap30]

just priced up a couple of rewires for a guy i have done work for on numerous occasions over the years, great guy and a pleasure to work for, no problems with payments really helpful etc

anyway he has asked me if the switches can go at 1400, i explained no i am governed by the regs and its `1200 to the top blah blah, the house was built in the 1920's, now he is doubling the size of the house with an L shaped extension, i dont want to let the guy down so can i go with the 1400 on the original house and insist on 1200 on the 'new' extension (treat it as a new build) this is a situation i have never faced before - sure people moan about switch heights but i always win the argument

this guy insists he will argue the ---- with anyone official should it ever come to that building control etc

is it something i could list on the cert that the client has insisted on it?

 

[GLENNSPARK]

if its a newbuild...then the 450 and 1200 rule applies...if an existing rewire...then you can site em where you want....within reason of course....

 

[gap30]

if its a newbuild...then the 450 and 1200 rule applies...if an existing rewire...then you can site em where you want....within reason of course....

yeah i thought as much i just wanted some opinions off here, thanks for the quick reply

 

[GLENNSPARK]

well i would cover yourself here....as if someone were to come round...and start asking about this.....well, its your name on the certs...

 

[gap30]

well i would cover yourself here....as if someone were to come round...and start asking about this.....well, its your name on the certs...

building control is involved in the job regarding the new extension the steels etc but i dont think they are too bothered about switch heights but you never know

 

[GLENNSPARK]

well you dont need unneccesary agro do you..lol....like busybodys coming round asking `who did this`...or stuff like that.....

 

[brucelee]

just check with the building inspector first mate as glenn says rewire its ok to install no worse than were they were before but as there are some in a new extension i would double check that with the building inspector first mate

 

[Adam W]

Presumably there's an architect if there's an extension?
I'd speak to the architect, mention the 450-1200 rule and see what they say, and get it in writing. They would be the one to know whether it is classed as a rewire or a new build, and have probably had more dealing with building control on this kind of thing.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

My understanding, is that the heights quoted in Part M are recommendations, more applicable to new builds where the end user is unknown.
An attempt at standardisation.
The main criteria being that the heights and positions are consistant throughout the property.
Where the end user is known, then their requirements should be paramount, and should be applied rather than some one size fits all standard.
In this particular case, applying the recommended heights as per Part M would result in a smaller part of the property having heights that differ to the heights in the larger part of the property. Something that Part M attempts to prevent.

 

[Fin170]

I'd call it a grey area or a loop hole

Did a barn conversion, doing it all at new heights and was told (later to my annoyance) that they wanted it done to 'old' heights (54 something, some weird measurement implied that i didn't own a tape measure and it wasn't the 21st century). I thought it would be classed as new build as this would be the first time it was intended for human occupation. However, Inspector told us this was fine as it was a existing structure so part M didn't apply

I'd double check with the inspector anyway as I can't see it set in stone between them

 

[Octopus]

I'd call it a grey area or a loop hole

Did a barn conversion, doing it all at new heights and was told (later to my annoyance) that they wanted it done to 'old' heights (54 something, some weird measurement implied that i didn't own a tape measure and it wasn't the 21st century). I thought it would be classed as new build as this would be the first time it was intended for human occupation. However, Inspector told us this was fine as it was a existing structure so part M didn't apply

I'd double check with the inspector anyway as I can't see it set in stone between them

Its not a grey area. The "new" heights and positions apply to new builds only.

In rewires and extensions you can position them in "keeping" with the existing sockets and switches.

 

[drew35]

That must mean that the whole of part P is just a recommendation then, along with all the other regulations?!? Why did I go on that course then?

 

[garrywatters]

That must mean that the whole of part P is just a recommendation then, along with all the other regulations?!? Why did I go on that course then?

They are all recommendations, the BGB, OSG, Part P. Not one of them is regulatory or mandatory......However in a court of law you had better have a bloody good reason as to why you deviated from the recs!

 

[Octopus]

That must mean that the whole of part P is just a recommendation then, along with all the other regulations?!? Why did I go on that course then?

Part P and the Building Regs are not a recommendation.

Most new bods use the OSG guide like a bible, BUT it principally covers new builds - imagine the size of the OSG if it covered everything!! You need to refer to the BGB, the Guidance notes and the EG to the BR to get everything you need to know and nobody except the very long standing electricians have the knowledge in their heads.

There are some areas of ambiguity and keep viewing this site and you'll realise which they are.

Your schemes technical support is a good place to start!

 

[brman]

we are talking about part M, not part P but perhaps I am getting a bit too pedantic

Page 8 of the approved document M:

The requirements of this Part do not apply to:
a) an extension or material alteration of a dwelling or........

Looks pretty black and white to me as Murdoch has said

 

[Guitarist]

When I had an extension built onto my house a few years ago, I sited all switches and sockets at the same height as the existing ones. When the building inspector visited he was very pleased as it tied-in the whole house. My Dad has just had an extension built and the architect insisted that the heights of all "new" switchgear should be to current regs, which I did. Wish I'd spoken to building control myself now and got it clarified. It seems different inspectors have different ideas regarding this area.

 

[Octopus]

And htis thread goes to show that if you just have the latest BGB and OSG you simply don't have the relevent reference books in your library.

All newbies take note.

 

[gap30]

wow this has opened a can of worms, i am gonna speak to the architect and get his views on this

 

[GLENNSPARK]

wow this has opened a can of worms, i am gonna speak to the architect and get his views on this

look at post #11 and #16....i`d go with that ....

 

[gap30]

look at post #11 and #16....i`d go with that ....

ok will go for 1400 and take it from there, worst case scenario i will pick up a bag of red through crimps:frown2:

 

[GLENNSPARK]

ok will go for 1400 and take it from there, worst case scenario i will pick up a bag of red through crimps:frown2:

what do you want the through crimps for?....just leave a loop in the ceiling....

 

[gap30]

what do you want the through crimps for?....just leave a loop in the ceiling....

sorry that above comment was a bit tongue in cheek

 

[sedgy34]

is the guy selling the house when its done or is he moving into it is the question, the certain heights are building regs if you can prove someone will live in it not disabled you can go 1400.
or ask the question to building control afterall its his house who you are doing the work for.


another option would be to do building regs heights in extension and alter when the house has been passed off you will be shortening the cables but more hassle patching up afterwards.

 

[gap30]

its for his brother in law who is able bodied, will follow all advice given to me on this excellent site