Taking action against a cowboy install...

DNS1 · Sep 28, 2012

A couple of months ago my parents had a new kitchen installed. Part of the install involved a new induction hob which meant a new circuit to be added to the board.

Now unfortunately they didn't tell me about anything that was going on, and ended up being talked into having their perfectly good 16th edition board replaced, instead of just sourcing an appropriate MCB or RCBO and connecting the hob circuit to the spare way.

I popped round today and whilst there I thought I'd fix a lightswitch that had been wired backwards for years. Simple enough job (despite half the screws being missing and a couple of wires simply resting against the terminals)

Few things I noticed about their new DB that cause me concern so I'd like another opinion:

- Notices missing from board (no sticker about the non-standard colours, no inspection due sticker, no sticker about testing RCD)
- MCBs labelled incorrectly (house is a little odd in that the 2 RFCs cover each side of the house, rather than upstairs and down, but not labelled as such)
- Both lighting circuits on same RCD
- Hob wired in buried T+E but not protected by RCD at all

Correct me if I'm wrong but none of the above are acceptable for a newly installed board are they? It all got me thinking about the whole installation and I'm now a little suspicious about how the initial testing could have been passed, given the fact that at least one lighting circuit clearly had poor connections in a switch.

Unfortunately I've not yet seen the certificates for any of the above work.

What does everyone think about the above? Should I be looking at take some action against this installer?

not clever · Oct 29, 2012

The garage supply is a distribution circuit supplying a 15th edition board.

So the submain should have gone on the rcd, not ideal but safer than it is at the moment.

DNS1 · Oct 30, 2012

not clever said:
So the submain should have gone on the rcd, not ideal but safer than it is at the moment.

I didn't think it had to as it's wired in SWA. Once it gets to the garage DB it's effectively just an older install which should be improved, but complies with the regs isn't it? If I'm wrong please correct me!

trev · Oct 30, 2012

Has anyone actually had a conversation with the installer since he left your parent's house? I'd say it was quite important to ascertain straight from him the reasons why he did what he did. He may have had a great deal of pressure in his personal life and simply screwed up, I know that's no excuse but if asked about things he could well volunteer to come over and sort things out.
Further, I read you comment about the family not always seeing the best in their own. If one of my family got another spark in to their home and it went wrong I'd be sorely tempted to tell them to shove their problems, I wouldn't but I'd be sorely tempted and would make my opinions known.

Skyba · Oct 30, 2012

trev said:
Has anyone actually had a conversation with the installer since he left your parent's house? I'd say it was quite important to ascertain straight from him the reasons why he did what he did. He may have had a great deal of pressure in his personal life and simply screwed up, I know that's no excuse but if asked about things he could well volunteer to come over and sort things out.
Further, I read you comment about the family not always seeing the best in their own. If one of my family got another spark in to their home and it went wrong I'd be sorely tempted to tell them to shove their problems, I wouldn't but I'd be sorely tempted and would make my opinions known.

I'd be very tempted also, the only person who has done this is my older brother, he's 8 years my senior and see's me as a 28 year old child for some reason. He wanted his cu changing from an old re-wirable to a 17th edition, I asked him to get the tester from his work when I was next in Cornwall and he seemed rather sheepish about it.
In the end he didn't bother, I wasn't worried I was having a weekend away and didn't fancy working anyway, I got chatting to him about a guy he works with who does bits and bobs of electrical work and has his 17th edition, anyway he's advised my brother badly on some variations on his kitchen ring to the point he has sockets that don't work, after chatting to him for a while and telling him what was wrong etc i quickly discovered that he has more faith in a chancer from work than me, so next time he cocks up and asks me how to do anything he'll get a little giggle followed by a ummmmmmm NO.

nickblake · Oct 30, 2012

Doesnt matter how bad it is no body will do anything ive seen inspections that are satisfactory and ive found 35 deviation including 11 C1's mention this and your told what are we suposed to do about it , the only time something will be done is when some one dies you can scream and shout all you like wont make the slightest bit of differance the only way some thing may and i say may get done is if the house holder takes action and reports them to trading standards , one example is an install ive recently taken over old manor turned into flats all bodged five meters on diffeant phases no covers on the meters , polarity reversed and guess what when the customer rang there trade body they didnt want to know still ive got the pics so she may well take action

ackbarthestar · Oct 30, 2012

GLENNSPARK said:
NO ITS NOT `PRE 17TH EDITION`..!!!
eebads still exists 411.1

Its probably more like ADS 411.1 with a bit of EEB 411.3. Don't you think?

DNS1 · Oct 31, 2012

trev said:
Has anyone actually had a conversation with the installer since he left your parent's house? I'd say it was quite important to ascertain straight from him the reasons why he did what he did. He may have had a great deal of pressure in his personal life and simply screwed up, I know that's no excuse but if asked about things he could well volunteer to come over and sort things out.

To be honest, there is no way I'd be letting the installer anywhere near the house again.

Making a mistake is one thing (eg the wrong disconnection times on the cert, forgetting to label the DB, not realising the hob needed to be RCD'd etc), but this guy has clearly MADE UP his R1+R2 values for an RFC! He knowingly left my folks with a circuit on an inappropriate mcb and falsified his figures!

As melodramatic (and unlikely) as it sounds, that could have led to the circuit being overloaded, the copper heating up and a nice big fire...

All of us, whether 30 year apprenticeship sparks, or newly qualified installers know that dodgy electrics can kill. Making mistakes is excusable, doing things wrong and lying about it is NOT!

As I said before, there is no way that installer will be working on my family's house again!